God Knows/Calls Before We Are Born

[The Rogue Tomato]

I can't find the thread where this was discussed, but here's a scripture on this topic:

Jer 1:4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew* you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

*or called

 

[Dizerner]

Here Classical Arminians are in full agreement.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-mystery-of-election-from-this-classical-arminian-point-of-view.210/

 

[civic]

I can't find the thread where this was discussed, but here's a scripture on this topic:

Jer 1:4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew* you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

*or called

Yep that’s true for a select few specific prophets of God- Jeremiah being one of those few, it’s as simple as that.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Here Classical Arminians are in full agreement.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-mystery-of-election-from-this-classical-arminian-point-of-view.210/

Well of course since Arminius was reformed. He would be considered a Calvinist by today’s standards. In fact he is more Calvinist than many Calvinists on the forums.

 

[Dizerner]

Well of course since Arminius was reformed. He would be considered a Calvinist by today’s standards. In fact he is more Calvinist than many Calvinists on the forums.

Arminius rejected Divine Determinism of any kind.

 

[civic]

Arminius rejected Divine Determinism

So do many present day Calvinists. You are making my point. Thanks !

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Yep that’s true for a select few specific prophets of God- Jeremiah being one of those few, it’s as simple as that.

hope this helps !!!

Can you provide scripture that it's only for a few specified prophets?

Hope that helps.

 

[civic]

Can you provide scripture that it's only for a few specified prophets?

Hope that helps.

Your passage has a specific and primary meaning. Parenthesis below mine.

Jer 1:4 The word of the Lord came to me, ( JEREMIAH ) saying,

5 “Before I formed you( JEREMIAH ) in the womb I knew you, ( JEREMIAH )
before you ( JEREMIAH ) were born I set you ( JEREMIAH ) apart;
I appointed you ( JEREMIAH ) as a prophet to the nations.”

 

[civic]

John the Baptist in the NT

Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He shall never take wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother's womb.

Paul

Galatians 1:15
But when God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me by His grace, was pleased

 

[civic]

David
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.

Isaiah 49:1
Listen to Me, O islands; pay attention, O distant peoples: The LORD called Me from the womb; from the body of My mother He named Me.

 

[TedT]

Jer 1:4 The word of the Lord came to me, saying,

5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew* you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Indeed, our lack of understanding causes many difficulties. HE knew Jeremiah after his creation but BEFORE his CONCEPTION; HE did not know about him just in HIS imagination.

I also hope you understand that I don't claim this is a PROOF verse that can't be argued. It is obvious that verses that hint at our pce have had their orthodox interpretations for centuries of which I am well aware. But they do contain alternative interpretations which should be answered as to how they fail if they are rejected as pce supports.

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

I know the created on earth bias interprets this as about thee, but it does open the door to accept it is possible that we had a pre-conception existence.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible sums it up well:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee,.... Not merely by his omniscience, so he knows all men before their conception and birth; but with such a knowledge as had special love and affection joined with it; implying a personal relationship with not knowledge about as per:
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Obviously He knew all about them but He did not have a personal relationship with them as GOD suggests HE had with Jeremiah. Can it really be said that we can have personal relationship with someone who has not yet been created??? I've decided, no it cannot.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

David
Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my unformed body; all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be.

Isaiah 49:1
Listen to Me, O islands; pay attention, O distant peoples: The LORD called Me from the womb; from the body of My mother He named Me.

Still don't see any scripture that says it only applies to them.

Hope that helps.

 

[civic]

Still don't see any scripture that says it only applies to them.

Hope that helps.

The only time it’s ever mentioned as I just demonstrated is with specific individuals with a special purpose. Once again proving my point. Hermeneutics 101.

hope this helps !!!

 

[praise_yeshua]

The only time it’s ever mentioned as I just demonstrated is with specific individuals with a special purpose. Once again proving my point. Hermeneutics 101.

hope this helps !!!

Maybe the Calvinist would like to actually establish the fact they're are just like Jeremiah......

You usually get something like.....God is no respecter of persons....... Oh wait....That doesn't actually work.... does it.....

The Calvinist claims God is actually a "respecter of persons". What He has done for others.... He will not do for YOU.....

It is always an endless circular argument with them.

 

[civic]

Maybe the Calvinist would like to actually establish the fact they're are just like Jeremiah......

You usually get something like.....God is no respecter of persons....... Oh wait....That doesn't actually work.... does it.....

The Calvinist claims God is actually a "respecter of persons". What He has done for others.... He will not do for YOU.....

It is always an endless circular argument with them.

Ditto

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

The only time it’s ever mentioned as I just demonstrated is with specific individuals with a special purpose. Once again proving my point. Hermeneutics 101.

hope this helps !!!

The only time the Bible mentions a global flood was in Noah's day. According to your so-called "hermeneutics", that means there would only be one flood. Here's the difference. God said he would never do it again. Now, THAT means there is only one global flood, not the fact that it was only mentioned once.

On the contrary, you cannot produce a single scripture that says God only foreknows prophets and special cases.

But scripture does say this:

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This is referring to believers, whom He foreknew, not just prophets or special cases like Jacob and Esau.

Hope this helps.

 

[civic]

The only time the Bible mentions a global flood was in Noah's day. According to your so-called "hermeneutics", that means there would only be one flood. Here's the difference. God said he would never do it again. Now, THAT means there is only one global flood, not the fact that it was only mentioned once.

On the contrary, you cannot produce a single scripture that says God only foreknows prophets and special cases.

But scripture does say this:

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This is referring to believers, whom He foreknew, not just prophets or special cases like Jacob and Esau.

Hope this helps.

You made my point again so thanks . One flood only which destroyed the earth and all living things. God promised next time it will be by fire with intense heat and not by a flood. God is very specific. The same with Jacob and Esau which does not represent everyone but them specifically.

PS. Hate means love less in that passage.

hope this helps !!!