Gay and Christian?

[Clay]

Can you be gay and Christian? How we answer that question has a lot to do with our definition of terms. Does “gay” simply mean having same-sex attractions? Does it mean practicing homosexuality romantically and sexually? Does it mean having a “gay” identity? And what about “Christian”? Does it mean going to a Christian church? Being born into a Christian family? Being a true follower of Jesus?

As a committed follower of Jesus and I believe that the Scriptures, which reflect God’s heart and will, forbid homosexual practice. Perhaps you’re concerned with the pervasive effects of gay activism in our culture, and you are convinced that they are a real threat to our freedoms of speech, conscience, and religion.


Then you have the “gay Christian” argument: Love is the fulfillment of the Law and does no harm to its neighbor. But the church’s teaching that homosexual practice is sin has done tremendous harm to many fine LGBT people and is therefore not loving. If we are to love our neighbor as our self, then we must affirm our LGBT brothers and sisters.

The biblical answer: While it is true that many “gay Christians” have been wounded by the church, and while the church has often failed miserably in reaching out with compassion to LGBT people, the greatest possible expression of love is to tell people God’s truth, knowing that His ways are best.

 

[360watt]

Can you be gay and Christian? How we answer that question has a lot to do with our definition of terms. Does “gay” simply mean having same-sex attractions? Does it mean practicing homosexuality romantically and sexually? Does it mean having a “gay” identity? And what about “Christian”? Does it mean going to a Christian church? Being born into a Christian family? Being a true follower of Jesus?

As a committed follower of Jesus and I believe that the Scriptures, which reflect God’s heart and will, forbid homosexual practice. Perhaps you’re concerned with the pervasive effects of gay activism in our culture, and you are convinced that they are a real threat to our freedoms of speech, conscience, and religion.


Then you have the “gay Christian” argument: Love is the fulfillment of the Law and does no harm to its neighbor. But the church’s teaching that homosexual practice is sin has done tremendous harm to many fine LGBT people and is therefore not loving. If we are to love our neighbor as our self, then we must affirm our LGBT brothers and sisters.

The biblical answer: While it is true that many “gay Christians” have been wounded by the church, and while the church has often failed miserably in reaching out with compassion to LGBT people, the greatest possible expression of love is to tell people God’s truth, knowing that His ways are best.

When someone is converted, that is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24 etc..

Now.. they then have eternal life, sealed by the Holy Spirit.

With this, they still have a battle with the flesh vs the Spirit. They can sin less, but never be sinless. Not until they go 'home' to heaven.

But make no mistake, the battle with the flesh does include fleeing from homosexuality. Homosexuality is not condoned,it carries with it discipline and rebuke..according to scripture.

So pursue homosexuality after conversion and expect conviction from the Holy Spirit to change that behaviour.

I don't believe in the line of 'never saved I the first place'.. if still in homosexuality after conversion.

Salvation is not a behavioral contract, it's forgiveness of sin imputed to a sinner, saved by grace of Jesus Christ thru the Holy Spirit.

But with grace, comes the truth of what sin is. Pursue homosexuality and expect a wretched existence of discipline continually from Jesus.

 

[Clay]

“Itching ears” is a figure of speech that refers to people’s desires, felt needs, or wants. It is these desires that impel a person to believe whatever he wants to believe rather than the actual truth itself.

When people have “itching ears,” they decide for themselves what is right or wrong, and they seek out others to support their notions. “Itching ears” are concerned with what feels good or comfortable, not with the truth—after all, truth is often uncomfortable. Paul’s warning is that the church would one day contain those who only opened their ears to those who would scratch their “itch.”

Looks like the day is here.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

At the heart of the claim that the Bible is clear "that homosexuality is forbidden by God" is poor biblical scholarship and a cultural bias read into the…

www.hrc.org

 

[Richard]

We are in a battle between the flesh and the spirit for control of our daily lives. If we yield to the flesh, the deeds of the flesh emerge in our lives. But if we walk by the spirit, the fruit of the spirit shows up in our lives. The flesh and the spirit are two very different governors and they constantly battle for control of our lives.

 

[360watt]

“Itching ears” is a figure of speech that refers to people’s desires, felt needs, or wants. It is these desires that impel a person to believe whatever he wants to believe rather than the actual truth itself.

When people have “itching ears,” they decide for themselves what is right or wrong, and they seek out others to support their notions. “Itching ears” are concerned with what feels good or comfortable, not with the truth—after all, truth is often uncomfortable. Paul’s warning is that the church would one day contain those who only opened their ears to those who would scratch their “itch.”

Looks like the day is here.

What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality?

At the heart of the claim that the Bible is clear "that homosexuality is forbidden by God" is poor biblical scholarship and a cultural bias read into the…

www.hrc.org

Well the itching ears would be those who pay heed to this article!

This is post modern Christianity in this article.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

We are in a battle between the flesh and the spirit for control of our daily lives. If we yield to the flesh, the deeds of the flesh emerge in our lives. But if we walk by the spirit, the fruit of the spirit shows up in our lives. The flesh and the spirit are two very different governors and they constantly battle for control of our lives.

Hi Richard:

I have met homosexual persons who bear the fruit of the flesh, and homosexual persons who bear the fruit of the spirit.
To me, God will not chop off and throw to the fire any tree that bears good fruit.

In both heterosexual and homosexual relations, there may be love or hate, greed or generosity, faithfulness and unfaithfulness, peace or violence.
I choose to keep thinking that God’s grace is working in any person displaying love, peace, joy and kindness… whatever their sexual orientation.

 

[Behold]

Can you be gay and Christian?

If we consider homosexuality as sin, just like being a liar is a sin, or just like being a murderer is a sin, or just like Teaching "the 5 points of Calvinism" is a sin (and should not be allowed on a real Christian forum)....... then we see that when a homosexual receives Christ.......they received him "while (they) were yet sinners".........so, its obvious that a Gay Person, can become a Chrisitan.

Should they remain Gay?......Is it ok for them to continue to practice immorally perverted sexuality.. ????

Of course not.......and God can help them return to normal "God given" desires.

 

[Richard]

Hi Richard:

I have met homosexual persons who bear the fruit of the flesh, and homosexual persons who bear the fruit of the spirit.
To me, God will not chop off and throw to the fire any tree that bears good fruit.

In both heterosexual and homosexual relations, there may be love or hate, greed or generosity, faithfulness and unfaithfulness, peace or violence.
I choose to keep thinking that God’s grace is working in any person displaying love, peace, joy and kindness… whatever their sexual orientation.

God is the one who made humankind male and female, and God is the one who commanded them to “be fruitful and increase in number”

And God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it [using all its vast resources in the service of God and man]; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and over every living creature that moves upon the earth.
Genesis1:28.

Sex is God’s idea. It was not our invention but his gift. And it was not begrudgingly given, as if God said: “Well go on, if you have to.” No, God gave us a means of reproduction that was not just functional but deeply pleasurable. Sex is a sign of his goodness.

Homosexual relations, perverts God's plan for mankind.
The man and woman become “one flesh.”

Jesus teaches that it is God who joins couples together in marriage and makes them one.
So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder (separate).
Matthew 19:6.

God himself produces this union between them. Physically, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually, two people are becoming knitted together. God has designed it to work that way.

The consequences in real life of homosexuality are serious, emptiness, brokenness, Aids and devastation. We should not be surprised: sex is designed to irreversibly bind two people together. A man and a woman. The way God planed it.

 

[Behold]

To me, God will not chop off and throw to the fire any tree that bears good fruit.

Here is how "GOD" evaluates, you, and everyone else.

"ALL have sinned......there is NONE Righteous.........NO NOT ONE".

So, as we see, there is no "well, im better then you, so i get to go to heaven".

Actually you dont. as your works are "filthy rags" thrown in God's Face, when you try to SELL that Self Righteous. to God.....
See,
the only WAY to heaven.... John 14:6..... and the WAY= ..Hung on The Cross for YOUR SIN... @Pancho Frijoles .
So, you can die in your sin...on your way to Hell ......or....... Jesus can die for you, based on your Faith in Christ... and then God becomes your Father, but not until.

 

[civic]

If we consider homosexuality as sin, just like being a liar is a sin, or just like being a murderer is a sin, or just like Teaching "the 5 points of Calvinism" is a sin (and should not be allowed on a real Christian forum)....... then we see that when a homosexual receives Christ.......they received him "while (they) were yet sinners".........so, its obvious that a Gay Person, can become a Chrisitan.

Should they remain Gay?......Is it ok for them to continue to practice immorally perverted sexuality.. ????

Of course not.......and God can help them return to normal "God given" desires.

I must say that I was a calvinist on a calvinist forum CARM for 20 years. If it wasn't for that forum I would not of come out of calvinism. I'm also not saying God did not have His hand in leading me out using that forum as a vehicle that was used to lead me out of those doctrines. So I have no problem having calvinists, non calvinists, non christians on this forum debating their beliefs and having them challenged by others. Thats what apologetics are all about- Paul defended his beliefs with the Jews ( non christians) the Greeks ( non christians ) and many other heathens to lead them to Christ defending the gospel with them. So this medium/forum can be used in a similar way to proclaim the truth.

Since I and the @Administrator started this forum this is what we agreed would be our purpose/goal to have a friendly environment for people of different faiths, backgrounds, beliefs , religions to freely express and defend them on a forum that doesn't restrict their freedoms just like in the real world here in the U.S.

We did not like how other forums would restrict non christians and where they could post and interact with others. So we decided that we would no do this here. We don't want to "lord" things over the members and abuse our "authority".

On this forum 99.999% of the time I'm just a regular guy posting and debating my beliefs just like everyone else. Thats the way I like it and want to be here.

I hope you understand my/our position even though you might disagree( and thats ok too ). We are all wired differently and all have our opinions. But I just wanted to take this opportunlty to clarify why I'm here and the forums position that you mentioned.

And I will have no hard feelings if you disagree. . We are still brothers in Christ.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Behold]

So I have no problem having calvinists, non calvinists, non christians on this forum debating their beliefs and having them challenged by others.

hope this helps !!!

Well, as long as you are not interested in keeping New Christians, baby Christians, who find this forum, from being turned into deceived Calvinists.. then you go right ahead and keep allowing it, @civic

Or you could say that .....>>"well, if a New Christian comes here and is faith destroyed because most of the Threads on this forum, everyday, are about Calvinism, then i guess that is just too bad for them, as we like having Calvinism here"

"hope this helps"..


-B

 

[civic]

Well, as long as you are not interested in keeping New Christians, baby Christians, who find this forum, from being turned into deceived Calvinists.. then you go right ahead and keep allowing it, @civic

Or you could say that .....>>"well, if a New Christian comes here and is faith destroyed because most of the Threads on this forum, everyday, are about Calvinism, then i guess that is just too bad for them, as we like having Calvinism here"

"hope this helps"..


-B

The difference here on this forum compared to the other one most of us came from is there are way more non calvinists here that oppose calvinism. I don't think a new/young convert will be swayed because of this forum. Could it happen sure, will it happen ? I have my doubts.

The difference in a forum like this vs real life in a church is here there are many different points of view where in a local church most everyone thinks alike.

If there is a new believer on this forum it would be very easy to point out to them the differences between calvinism and non calvinism concerning God. And I would have the confidence to point out those differences to they could see the Goodness and Love of God. Afterall the differences are all about the character and nature of God, His attributes.

 

[Behold]

The difference here on this forum compared to the other one most of us came from is there are way more non calvinists here that oppose calvinism. I don't think a new/young convert will be swayed because of this forum. Could it happen sure, will it happen ? I have my doubts.

Calvinism is always being spread online by people who argue for it, on this forum, or any, so, to deny this, or "doubt this" is really not being honest with yourself.

So, go ahead and lest it run, let it fly, let it proceed, but you remember that you are not accountable to me for what you allow under the title of a "christian" FORUM........BUT YOU are accountable to the ONE that this site is supposed to be representing., in case you forgot.

 

[Behold]

The difference here on this forum compared to the other one most of us came from is there are way more non calvinists here that oppose calvinism. I don't think a new/young convert will be swayed because of this forum. Could it happen sure, will it happen ? I have my doubts.

The difference in a forum like this vs real life in a church is here there are many different points of view where in a local church most everyone thinks alike.

If there is a new believer on this forum it would be very easy to point out to them the differences between calvinism and non calvinism concerning God. And I would have the confidence to point out those differences to they could see the Goodness and Love of God. Afterall the differences are all about the character and nature of God, His attributes.

Let me put it another way.

You are fortunate, in that after only 20yrs, you were able to escape......Hyper-Calvinism.....Tulip.

So, is it worth causing this to happen to even ONE New Christian, who finds this forum, because you want to allow Calvinism to be taught here?
And what if after this forum causes this to happen to just ONE PERSON......>Just one......and that one never escapes the mind blindness that is John Calvinism.... only because you want to let it be taught here so that you can argue about it.

So, im not seeing how this is "doing God's will", using This Forum, but im sure that you will have quite an answer.....but keep that in your heart, as you are not going to convince me.......and i dont personally believe, that God is going to be convinced.

Ok then.

-B

 

[civic]

Calvinism is always being spread online by people who argue for it, on this forum, or any, so, to deny this, or "doubt this" is really not being honest with yourself.

So, go ahead and lest it run, let it fly, let it proceed, but you remember that you are not accountable to me for what you allow under the title of a "christian" FORUM........BUT YOU are accountable to the ONE that this site is supposed to be representing., in case you forgot.

I agree and know I'm accountable to God for everything I say and do. Jesus allowed the Pharisees into His presence and corrected them as did the Apostles. I'm not aware of many new believers seeking out forums are you ?

 

[Richard]

Calvinism seems to me to be a very small part of this forum. Example, this thread is not about Calvinism.

 

[civic]

Let me put it another way.

You are fortunate, in that after only 20yrs, you were able to escape......Hyper-Calvinism.....Tulip.

So, is it worth causing this to happen to even ONE New Christian, who finds this forum, because you want to allow Calvinism to be taught here?
And what if after this forum causes this to happen to just ONE PERSON......>Just one......and that one never escapes the mind blindness that is John Calvinism.... only because you want to let it be taught here so that you can argue about it.

So, im not seeing how this is "doing God's will", using This Forum, but im sure that you will have quite an answer.....but keep that in your heart, as you are not going to convince me.......and i dont personally believe, that God is going to be convinced.

Ok then.

-B

But calvinism is not being promoted here its being opposed. JW's are not being promoted here its being opposed, Catholocism is not being promoted its being opposed, Mormonism is not being promoted its being opposed, unitarianism is not being promoted here its being opposed. Preterism is not being promoted here its being opposed. And so on and so forth.

 

[Richard]

I agree and know I'm accountable to God for everything I say and do. Jesus allowed the Pharisees into His presence and corrected them as did the Apostles. I'm not aware of many new believers seeking out forums are you ?

No, new believers are most likely doing something more productive.

 

[Richard]

But calvinism is not being promoted here its being opposed. JW's are not being promoted here its being opposed, Catholocism is not being promoted its being opposed, Mormonism is not being promoted its being opposed, unitarianism is not being promoted here its being opposed. Preterism is not being promoted here its being opposed. And so on and so forth.

I like to be informed and know both of the argument.

Sun Tzu, a Chinese military general, strategist, and philosopher, once said “Know thy enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.” To win an argument is not only about finding strength and coherence in your opinions. Try to understand the opposite's perspectives.

 

[civic]

No, new believers are most likely doing something more productive.

I'm sure they are lol