Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[Complete]

As you can see the gospel is hid to them that are lost so you can only believe it if you're already saved or regenerated

'Therefore seeing we have this ministry,
as we have received mercy, we faint not;
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty,
not walking in craftiness,
nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
but by manifestation of the truth
commending ourselves to every man's conscience
in the sight of God.
But if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world
hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God,
should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,
hath shined in our hearts,
to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God
in the face of Jesus Christ.'
(2Co 4:1-6)

Hello @brightfame52,

It is not justifiable to use Scripture in the way that you do, manipulating the meaning to fit your own conception of the truth. You obviously believe strongly that you are correct in what you believe. Only the Holy Spirit can bring about a change. May His will be done in you, and in each one of us, for His Name and Glory's sake. Bye.

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head
Chris

 

[brightfame52]

It is not justifiable to use Scripture in the way that you do, manipulating the meaning to fit your own conception of the truth. You obviously believe strongly that you are correct in what you believe. Only the Holy Spirit can bring about a change. May His will be done in you, and in each one of us, for His Name and Glory's sake. Bye.

The gospel is hid to them that are lost. That's scripture. God has to save us before the gospel is no longer hid.

 

[Kokomo]

Jesus laid down his life through his voluntary sacrifice on the cross, demonstrating the ultimate expression of love and selflessness for humanity.

Jesus' laying down of his life is primarily understood through his crucifixion, where he willingly accepted death to atone for the sins of humanity.

In John 10:18, Jesus states, "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative."

This emphasizes that his death was a conscious choice, reflecting his authority and purpose in fulfilling God's plan for salvation.

The act of laying down his life is seen as the ultimate demonstration of love.

In John 15:13, Jesus teaches, "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends."

This verse encapsulates the essence of his sacrifice, highlighting that true love often requires self-sacrifice. Jesus' death is viewed as a ransom for many, fulfilling the role of the sacrificial lamb, which is a central theme in Christian theology.

Jesus' life and teachings consistently emphasized love and service to others. He modeled selflessness by prioritizing the needs of others over his own, as seen in his interactions with his disciples and the marginalized. His command to love one another as he loved them serves as a guiding principle for his followers, encouraging them to embody the same self-giving love.

Jesus laid down his life through his voluntary crucifixion, which serves as the ultimate act of love and sacrifice. This act not only provided a means for reconciliation between God and humanity but also set a profound example for his followers to love and serve others selflessly. His teachings encourage believers to reflect this love in their own lives, demonstrating that true love often involves sacrifice for the benefit of others.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus laid down his life through his voluntary sacrifice on the cross, demonstrating the ultimate expression of love and selflessness for humanity.

Yeah but He did it for his church not all humanity, and His sacrifice actually saved His church Ephesians 5:25 - 27

 

[Gaius]

Yeah but He did it for his church not all humanity, and His sacrifice actually saved His church Ephesians 5:25 - 27

At the time of His crucifixion there was no Church.

Ephesians 5:25-27 is instructions for husbands to love their wife's. Not about the crucifixion bot God's teaching us to love each outer.

It's in A.D. 60.
Ephesians unfolds the process by which God is bringing the church to its destined purpose in Christ. Basic maturing steps are taken toward the church’s appointed engagement in battle with dark powers:

1) before the church is called to war, she is taught to walk;

2) before being called to walk, the church is taught where she stands.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@brightfame52

IF you are insistent to keep spewing John 6:45 as your proof of some kind.... STOP IT.

The truth is the other night I tried to place two members here in ignore. The one worked as it should and will remain in that time out position until I am urged to address something. You were the other... and it did not work because I am supposed to keep our argument going and this had to have been inspired by the Holy Spirit that lives in me and guides me in so much.

This post should have its own thread, but as it is of the subject here I am posting it here.

People read John 6:45 and often say something different when talking about it simply because the translation vary across the boards.... I do not recall @brightfame52 you ever telling us which translation you follow... but a few are below.

KJV says

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

How many times have you heard people say that? or How many times have you heard people say the following because they are not saying the same thing at all.

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

But who knows where this translation comes from because in according to the Bible, only Jesus, who is from God, has seen the Father and can reveal Him to others (John 1:18, John 6:46).

Here is a pop quiz for you @brightfame52 .Which do you think might be likely?

A. After Jesus was crucified and resurrected the Heavenly Father came to earth to teach those who still had a need to learn something which SUPPORTS your And they will all be taught by God.
or
B. That it is possible Jesus is God and also supports your And they will all be taught by God.
or
C. Those that were being talked to in John actually taught by the teachers and prophets of God at the time and had the actual words they spoke under inspiration... which supports, they shall be all taught of God.

because in the interlinear it states.

estin gegrammenon en prophētais Kai esontai pantes didaktoi Theou

45 ἔστιν γεγραμμένον ἐν τοῖς προφήταις : Καὶ ἔσονται πάντες διδακτοὶ Θεοῦ .

It is written in the Prophets and they will be all taught of God


pas ho akousas para tou Patros kai mathōn erchetai pros eme
πᾶς ὁ ἀκούσας παρὰ τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ μαθὼν , ἔρχεται πρὸς ἐμέ .
Everyone - having heard from the Father and having learned comes to Me
Even the Nasb95 says John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

No where should it be translated taught by God. In the first place... we know God did not walk on earth. God was/is a spirit and as said in John .... According to the Bible, only Jesus, who is from God, has seen the Father and can reveal Him to others (John 1:18, John 6:46).

The Aramaic says
“For it is written in The Prophets, 'All of them will be taught of God.' Everyone, therefore, who has heard from The Father and has learned from him, comes to me.”

The Pesitta says “For it is written in The Prophets, 'All of them will be taught of God.' Everyone, therefore, who has heard from The Father and has learned from him, comes to me.”

So it would seem that whoever was translating this verse from the Greek made a word that fit with
their understanding....

That word is

"Θεοῦ" (theou) is the genitive form of the Greek word for "God," used to indicate possession, meaning "of God." It appears frequently in the New Testament and other Greek texts to refer to God or divine matters

[td]

​

[/td]​

​

​

 

[brightfame52]

At the time of His crucifixion there was no Church.

Well how could he have loved his church and gave himself for it if it did not exist before he died?

 

[brightfame52]

IF you are insistent to keep spewing John 6:45 as your proof of some kind.... STOP IT.

Verse 45 here is the result of John 6:44, the drawing persuades to Believe in Christ. The gift of faith comes with the drawing

 

[FreeInChrist]

Well how could he have loved his church and gave himself for it if it did not exist before he died?

Stop that.

You have been stating for months... since June 12th on this thread alone that Jesus died for The Fathers elect. That included the Jews and Gentiles..... and they did not make up a church.

Here... from Ai... which certainly holds a world of truth

The early church began to form after Jesus' crucifixion, as his followers spread his teachings and established communities. Initially, these gatherings were made up of his disciples and other early believers in Jerusalem and beyond.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Verse 45 here is the result of John 6:44, the drawing persuades to Believe in Christ. The gift of faith comes with the drawing

Well, did I call it or didn't I? I knew you would not read what is posted....

Go to the pop quiz and see if you can answer.

ALSO.... SAY WHAT TRANSLATION YOU PREFER....

 

[brightfame52]

You have been stating for months... since June 12th on this thread alone that Jesus died for The Fathers elect.

That's the church

 

[FreeInChrist]

That's the church

Listen Jelly bean,

there was no church

The early church began to form after Jesus' crucifixion, as his followers spread his teachings and established communities. Initially, these gatherings were made up of his disciples and other early believers in Jerusalem and beyond.

Prove it if you think so with scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Listen Jelly bean,

What's with the insults? The Church in Eph 5 is the chosen ones in Eph 1:4. That's the elect!

 

[brightfame52]

there was no church

How could He have loved his church past tense and gave Himself for it and it didn't exist? It was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

 

[FreeInChrist]

How could He have loved his church past tense and gave Himself for it and it didn't exist? It was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

Do you ever read your bible other then the 6 or 8 scripture you copy and paste from every day?

These things are all explained in there....

 

[brightfame52]

Do you ever read your bible other then the 6 or 8 scripture you copy and paste from every day?

These things are all explained in there....

The Church has existed from the foundation of the world, all who were given faith Heb 11 belongs to the Church. Moses had Faith in Christ Heb 11:24-26

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward

1 Pet 4 14

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

 

[Gaius]

Well how could he have loved his church and gave himself for it if it did not exist before he died?

Before His death the Jews worshiped in the worshiped in the synagogue as did Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

Before His death the Jews worshiped in the worshiped in the synagogue as did Jesus.

okay and your point?

 

[Gaius]

okay and your point?

That unconditional and predestination unto salvation both refer to the same falsehood—
an unconditional election is not an election to salvation, but to service.

 

[Kokomo]

Yeah but He did it for his church not all humanity, and His sacrifice actually saved His church Ephesians 5:25 - 27

He did it for mankind. Jesus' death on the cross removed the barrier of sin that separates humanity from God, allowing for a reconciled relationship. This "barrier" or "gap" is overcome because Jesus, as a "sin offering," took on humanity's sin, enabling believers to be made righteous in God's eyes through his sacrifice. This allows people to have peace, forgiveness, and direct access to God through Jesus's work.

All we do is have faith in Christs finished work.

Man before the cross...But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear. Isaiah 59:2

Now the curtain of the temple separating God and Man is torn in two and we can come boldly to the thrown of grace to receive mercy.

It was a dramatic event that occurred at the death of Jesus, signifying that his sacrifice opened a direct, new way for people to approach God. Previously, a thick curtain separated the Holy Place from the Most Holy Place, where God's presence was considered to be, and only the High Priest could enter once a year.

The torn curtain means that barrier is gone, and through Christ, everyone can now come before God with confidence and boldness.

Now we can come boldly to the throne of grace: “Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.”
Hebrews 4:16

Calvinism want to change that and make you wonder if you are good enough to be saved Like they are.

So, following Jesus is about confidence, not timidity. Don't buy into the man made lie.

The verse "Jesus is not willing that any should perish" is found in 2 Peter 3:9, which states, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance".

This verse expresses God's desire for all people to be saved, emphasizing His patience and mercy in giving everyone the opportunity to repent and receive eternal life. The statement reflects a loving and compassionate nature of God who does not want anyone to be condemned.

The god of Calvanism is not loving and compassionate.