Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

King Saul was annotated to Prophesy [by the same Holy Spirit] and yet had his anointing stripped from him by God [according to Samuel] and died in madness (tormented by evil spirits) and in shame.

Judas predates the Resurrection, so is under an Old Covenant "anointing" rather than a New Covenant "indwelling" [is he not?].

[Don't get me wrong, there are VERSES that suggest one can loose salvation, so reject "P" with my blessings ... we Baptists think people should answer to God rather than other people on important stuff like what you believe ... however, Judas may not be the "poster boy" for striking down "P".]

[Ironically, Arminius also accepted "P" ... there are verses like John 10:28-29 (My hand/Father's hand) and phrases like "Eternal Life" that become harder to explain without "eternal security".]
Um your article holds the making alive of an unbeliever.

That, however, is an unbiblical stance.


Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
Um your article holds the making alive of an unbeliever.

That, however, is an unbiblical stance.


Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
That would be more deeply profound if I had said anything on the subject you are discussing. The issue between BF and Civic was the question of whether TRUE SALVATION was something that could be "gained and lost" or whether the SAVED were "forever saved". I cannot see how that impacts an "unbeliever" since they would be disqualified from being "TRUE SAVED" (as distinct from an "I never knew you" church attendee).

If your concern was over the PERSONAL GRACE granted by the Baptist Distinctive that people answer to God rather than a Church Hierarchy or a Creed ... tough. Baptists have died opposing oppressive state churches so I am not about to abandon "Individual Soul Liberty" to any person or creed that seeks to usurp the role of God.

If your objection is over the dubious "new man" status of Judas, I stand by the comparison to King Saul and invite any scriptural refutation of the parallel.

Now I, personally, am a Particular Baptist, which means that I accept all 5-points of TULIP. For me the issue is settled by verses like John 10 where "no one can snatch" US out of the hands of the father and Son ... no one means no one. It also rests on phrases like "eternal life" which mean "forever and ever" life ... not a temporary life that may slip away if WE misstep (which is, by definition, not "eternal". Assurance rests on the description of the Holy Spirit as a "deposit" or "Surety" to GUARANTEE our inheritance ... that God will REDEEM that which God has marked with His seal of ownership. So my faith in "eternal" is based on who God is, rather than what I am capable of.

Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. - Romans 14:4 [NKJV]

for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13 [NKJV]
 
That would be more deeply profound if I had said anything on the subject you are discussing. The issue between BF and Civic was the question of whether TRUE SALVATION was something that could be "gained and lost" or whether the SAVED were "forever saved". I cannot see how that impacts an "unbeliever" since they would be disqualified from being "TRUE SAVED" (as distinct from an "I never knew you" church attendee).

If your concern was over the PERSONAL GRACE granted by the Baptist Distinctive that people answer to God rather than a Church Hierarchy or a Creed ... tough. Baptists have died opposing oppressive state churches so I am not about to abandon "Individual Soul Liberty" to any person or creed that seeks to usurp the role of God.

If your objection is over the dubious "new man" status of Judas, I stand by the comparison to King Saul and invite any scriptural refutation of the parallel.

Now I, personally, am a Particular Baptist, which means that I accept all 5-points of TULIP. For me the issue is settled by verses like John 10 where "no one can snatch" US out of the hands of the father and Son ... no one means no one. It also rests on phrases like "eternal life" which mean "forever and ever" life ... not a temporary life that may slip away if WE misstep (which is, by definition, not "eternal". Assurance rests on the description of the Holy Spirit as a "deposit" or "Surety" to GUARANTEE our inheritance ... that God will REDEEM that which God has marked with His seal of ownership. So my faith in "eternal" is based on who God is, rather than what I am capable of.

Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. - Romans 14:4 [NKJV]

for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for [His] good pleasure. - Philippians 2:13 [NKJV]
Newsflash in the phrase I have bolded red is

The doctrine of total inability which you affirm in affirming TULIP has God regenerating unbelievers so they may believe

Such a doctrine is clearly unbiblical when it shows


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
Last edited:
  • Deuteronomy 30:11 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you.
  • Deuteronomy 30:14 (LEB) — 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it.
  • Deuteronomy 30:19 (LEB) — 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring,

If people COULD obey, then why did EVERYONE "not obey"?

  • Judges17:6 [NKJV] In those days [there was] no king in Israel; everyone did [what was] right in his own eyes.
  • 1 Samuel 8:7 [NKJV] And the LORD said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
  • Jeremiah 16:12 [NKJV] 'And you have done worse than your fathers, for behold, each one follows the dictates of his own evil heart, so that no one listens to Me.
You are not going to deny the ability shown in Deut 30:11-19 because all do not do so are you?
 
You are not going to deny the ability shown in Deut 30:11-19 because all do not do so are you?
None did so.
 
So can you post a verse that speaks of an unconditional election to wrath?
Romans 9:18-22 [KJV]
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
 
Romans 9:18-22 [KJV]
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Nothing there about unconditional wrath

And it was unfaithful Jews who were hardened

Romans 9:30–10:21 (UASV) — 30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained righteousness, even the righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why is that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” 1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. 3 For ignoring the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the Law: “The man who does these things will live by means of them.” 6 But the righteousness based on faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down, 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith which we are proclaiming, 9 that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call on him; 13 for “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how will they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ. 18 But I say, surely, they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have. “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the inhabited earth.” 19 But I say, Israel did not know, did they? First, Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I became manifest to those who did not ask for me.” 21 But as for Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

BTW the reference to the potter is found here.


Jeremiah 18:1–12 (UASV) — 1 The word that came to Jeremiah from Jehovah: 2 “Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will let you listen to my words.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was working on his wheel. 4 And the vessel he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter’s hand, and he reworked it into another vessel, as it was right in the eyes of the potter to make. 5 And the word of Jehovah came to me: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter has done? declares Jehovah. Look, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to tear down, and to destroy it; 8 and if that nation which I have spoken against turns from its evil, I will also feel regret over the calamity that I intended to bring against it. 9 Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; 10 if it does evil in my eyes by not listening to my voice, then I will feel regret over the good with which I had promised to bless it. 11 Now, therefore, say to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: ‘Thus says Jehovah, Look, I am forming a calamity against you and devising a plan against you. Return, everyone from his evil way, and amend your ways and your deeds.’ 12 “But they say, ‘That is in vain! We will follow our own plans and will every one act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’
 
Last edited:
Newsflash in the phrase I have bolded red is
The doctrine of total inability which you affirm in affirming TULIP has God regenerating unbelievers so they may believe
Such a doctrine is clearly unbiblical when it shows
Those who do not believe will not see life

No, the claim that I support all 5 points of TULIP is not the doctrine of Total Inability, it is just a statement that I accept the doctrine of Total Inability as true. Here is the Doctrine of Total Inability:

While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18).​
The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).​
The Apostle Paul summarizes the total depravity of man in Romans 3:9-18. He begins this passage by saying that “both Jews and Greeks are all under sin.” Simply put, this means that man is under the control of sin or is controlled by his sin nature (his natural tendency to sin). The fact that unregenerate people are controlled by their selfish, sinful tendencies should not come as a surprise to any parent. What parent has to teach his or her child to be selfish, to covet what someone else has or to lie? Those actions come naturally from the child’s sin nature. Instead, the parent must devote much time to teaching the child the importance of telling the truth, of sharing instead of being selfish, of obeying instead of rebelling, etc.​
Then in the rest of this passage Paul quotes extensively from the Old Testament in explaining how sinful man really is. For example, we see that 1—no one is without sin, 2—no one seeks after God, 3—there is no one who is good, 4—their speech is corrupted by sin, 5—their actions are corrupted by sin, and 6—above all, they have no fear of God. So, when one considers even these few verses, it becomes abundantly clear the Bible does indeed teach that fallen man is “totally depraved,” because sin affects all of him including his mind, will and emotions so that “there is none who does good, no not one” (Romans 3:12).​

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
Great scriptures, I believe all of them!

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.
No it doesn’t. What about what God did to Lydia so she could believe?

  • Acts 16:14 [NKJV] Now a certain woman named Lydia heard [us]. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

… and she was not the first:

  • Acts 2:37 [NKJV] Now when they heard [this], they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"

… just as God said He would do:

  • Ezekiel 36:25-27 [NKJV] "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do [them].
(Who will do? Man or God?)

What did Jesus say about it?

  • John 3:3, 5-8 [NKJV] 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." ... 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

… Jesus calls us to be born of the SPIRIT in order to enter His Kingdom, but you claim the FLESH holds the power to choose rebirth into a kingdom it cannot even SEE! That is Total Inability without the GRACE of God empowering us.
 
No, the claim that I support all 5 points of TULIP is not the doctrine of Total Inability, it is just a statement that I accept the doctrine of Total Inability as true. Here is the Doctrine of Total Inability:
Hello you affirmed it as true

The calvinist doctrine of total depravity holds man is incapable of believing (total inability). Holding such a belief, Calvinism holds that God makes man alive, that is regenerates him so he can believe.

That is contrary to scripture which states


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

Nowhere do we read in scripture that God makes man alive so that he can believe and be given life

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

No it doesn’t. What about what God did to Lydia so she could believe?

  • Acts 16:14 [NKJV] Now a certain woman named Lydia heard [us]. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.

Um Lydia was a believer a worshipper of God and the text does not state she was born again/made alive so she could believe
that man can believe is seen here

Romans 10:5–10 (UASV) — 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is by the Law: “The man who does these things will live by means of them.” 6 But the righteousness based on faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ that is, to bring Christ down, 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith which we are proclaiming, 9 that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.


… and she was not the first:

  • Acts 2:37 [NKJV] Now when they heard [this], they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?"
Again, there was no making of these men alive so they could believe.

So where have you posted anything that claims these were born again/made alive so they could believe?

That is what Calvinism teaches.

Where have you supported it?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom