Do Calvinists really believe this ?

[Rockson]

EVERYTHING in one way or another comes from God, but that does not make God "the author of sin". James show us that we are the author of our own sin. Yet, yes, it is caused to be so by God......

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Jm 1: 13

Sorry Msends and please reconsider your position. The verse I just quoted above doesn't seem to say "neither does God tempt any man BUT keep in mind EVERYTHING in one way or another comes from him anyway. When he says God tempts no man he means God tempts no man!

And the same Jm 1:13 verse says let no man even say what you're saying. We're doing our best to encourage you to cease from doing this and no offence but you've got to do your part too and make a decision to think and speak a different way.

I know too that Calvinists love the type of statement you've made.....EVERYTHING in one way or another comes from God anyway.......you see it in their basic writings God is sovereign and he ordains everything.....no he didn't do it too you (Calvinists say) but ordained it.....but to ordain is a verb which speaks of having an active part..... God's saying about that whole philosophy stop saying it, advancing it and putting it out. We trust and hope that you'll consider making this new adjustment.

 

[makesends]

If God is the "first cause " as you have "established" with everything that exists then there is no escaping God is responsible as the One causing all things to occur both good and evil. You cannot have you cake and eat it too as they say.

'Responsible', then, taken to imply fault and blame? No. 'Responsible' in that he planned for and created what brought about sin? Yes. He created in order for him to redeem his Bride. Sin is no accident.

As has been shown, God does not have to 'live-up-to' morality. Morality is what it is, because God is moral. (No, I'm not trying to redefine morality to excuse God). It is logically self-contradictory for God to sin, because sin is rebellion against God.

Ask yourself, is God first cause, or not. Ask yourself for as complete a definition of 'first cause' as you can make. Study what others have said about it. One of the corollaries is, there can be no other first cause. There is no other 'true spontaneity'.

God is the essence of 'new'. There is no other.

 

[civic]

'Responsible', then, taken to imply fault and blame? No. 'Responsible' in that he planned for and created what brought about sin? Yes. He created in order for him to redeem his Bride. Sin is no accident.

As has been shown, God does not have to 'live-up-to' morality. Morality is what it is, because God is moral. (No, I'm not trying to redefine morality to excuse God). It is logically self-contradictory for God to sin, because sin is rebellion against God.

Ask yourself, is God first cause, or not. Ask yourself for as complete a definition of 'first cause' as you can make. Study what others have said about it. One of the corollaries is, there can be no other first cause. There is no other 'true spontaneity'.

God is the essence of 'new'. There is no other.

Getting ready for work but this will be a good conversation to have and to " flesh " out my friend. . I actually enjoy talking about our difference's in a civilized and respectful manner which is a rarity. Thanks !!!!

 

[makesends]

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Jm 1: 13

Sorry Msends and please reconsider your position. The verse I just quoted above doesn't seem to say "neither does God tempt any man BUT keep in mind EVERYTHING in one way or another comes from him anyway. When he says God tempts no man he means God tempts no man!

And the same Jm 1:13 verse says let no man even say what you're saying. We're doing our best to encourage you to cease from doing this and no offence but you've got to do your part too and make a decision to think and speak a different way.

I know too that Calvinists love the type of statement you've made.....EVERYTHING in one way or another comes from God anyway.......you see it in their basic writings God is sovereign and he ordains everything.....no he didn't do it too you (Calvinists say) but ordained it.....but to ordain is a verb which speaks of having an active part..... God's saying about that whole philosophy stop saying it, advancing it and putting it out. We trust and hope that you'll consider making this new adjustment.

I agree God does not tempt anybody. Take a closer look at James. Consider the many passages of Scripture where God accomplished his plans in ways that some people would consider 'tempting his victims'. The Bible is very specific in the terminology.

Who says, "he didn't do it to you"? Or maybe better it be asked, "He didn't do WHAT to you?" Get specific. And keep James in mind, concerning how sin happens and where it comes from. There is a causal sequence.

Our language tangles our head up. We take a word that means one thing, and before we know it, we have applied it to something else where it does not mean that, yet we call it logic.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That you have no freedom to choose ?

That you have no "freedom of your own will " ?

If so then how do you make sense of this verse below ?

2 Corinthians 10:5-
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Do you take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ ? if not why not ?

Can you choose your own thoughts ?

Are your thoughts and choices made for you ?

"T", "U", "L", "I", and "P" indicate that you have no freedom to choose.

Since you're "T", you're totally incapable of doing any spiritual - so no freedom (or even capability) to choose.

No "U" and you're NOT ELECT, so it's OVER! You're firewood, without a freedom or ability to choose.

If you've GOT "U", then "T", and "L" doesn't count any more, and "I", and "P" takes over, so you have no freedom or ability to choose.

Simple as that. you're either IN all the way, or you're nothing but kindling, and there's no Freedom or ability of choice is in sight.

Calvinists, of course will not agree with any of the above, and simply inform us that "we don't understnd", but won't be able to explain anything differently. BUT HEY - it's only "theology" after all.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

"T", "U", "L", "I", and "P" indicate that you have no freedom to choose.

Since you're "T", you're totally incapable of doing any spiritual - so no freedom (or even capability) to choose.

No "U" and you're NOT ELECT, so it's OVER! You're firewood, without a freedom or ability to choose.

If you've GOT "U", then "T", and "L" doesn't count any more, and "I", and "P" takes over, so you have no freedom or ability to choose.

Simple as that. you're either IN all the way, or you're nothing but kindling, and there's no Freedom or ability of choice is in sight.

Calvinists, of course will not agree with any of the above, and simply inform us that "we don't understnd", but won't be able to explain anything differently. BUT HEY - it's only "theology" after all.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

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But as usual no answers at all. "Arminians don't generally react violently about accusations of "pelagianism", and since I'm an "Eclectic", I just chuckle at 'em all. It's only "theology" after all.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes...but,

a free will also cannot be constrained by anyone/anything else such as any defect within ourselves like an enslavement to sin.

If we cannot choose to be righteous because of our sin then sinners do not have a free will.

Free will is free in the sense that it is free from any outside will enforcing itself to the point of necessity in any given situation. Thus, God’s will doesn’t usurp the authority of determining what one does from the will of the creature. That God might will X for me, doesn’t mean that X is necessarily certain!

This doesn’t mean that outside or inward influences or forces have no impact or effect on our choices, for each time we follow our sinful desires’ lead, sin grows stronger and stronger. Thus, as it grows stronger, I become more and more obedient to its desires and willingly choose to follow its lead.

But God’s grace is greater than sin’s power in us, and can, through the gospel, make us see the reality of our spiritual condition and allow our wills to respond of its own accord to the gospel’s message.

Again, the only “freedom” we assert is that we are not under the obligation of what God may desire us to choose; we are free of any obligation outside of our own control.


Doug