Discussion of Romans

[Administrator]

This Theard is for 'Discussion of Romans" as the title says. I'll start it off with a short introduction.

Author: Paul the apostle
Date: A.D. 57–58
Background: Though both Paul and Peter were apparently martyred in Rome, it is unlikely that either was the founder of the church in that city. Possibly some who were converted on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10) carried the gospel back to the imperial city; or it may be that converts of Paul or of other apostles founded the church there. We do know that the membership was predominantly Gentile (Romans1:13; 11:13; 15:15–16).

Overview: Paul’s letter to Rome is better known in the church than any other. Its systematic presentation of major theological themes is foundational for understanding the nature of the Christian faith, the righteousness of God, salvation, and the roles of Israel and the church. And because Paul was not acquainted with the church at Rome, the letter is less personal and culture-bound than his others; thus, it appears more universally and directly applicable to the church through the ages.

Read Romans as if for the first time and look for its unique revelation of God’s attributes and actions. You will be powerfully impressed by God’s righteousness, just wrath, unfailing love, absolute faithfulness, awesome sovereignty, and unique wisdom—not to mention His incredible gift of life.

Book of Romans | Guide with Key Information and Resources

Discover how the Gospel reveals God’s character and creates a new humanity in the book of Romans in the Bible. Explore the book’s main themes such as righteousness, covenant, love, and unity through videos, podcasts, and more from BibleProject™.

bibleproject.com

 

[Soyeong]

Character traits are easy to understand, so the trait of righteousness can also be easy to understand but theological constructs around it can make it difficult to understand. Character traits are not earned as the result of our works but rather they are embodied through our works. The only way to attain a character trait is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough works in order to earn it as the result but what it means to has character trait is to be a doer of works that embody that trait, so it would be contradictory to attain a character trait apart from becoming a doer of that trait. This is why 1 John 3:4-7 says that everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God is righteous even as they are righteous. Likewise, this is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works he also affirmed in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Law of God will be declared righteous, so there must be a reason why our righteousness requires to choose to be a doer of the Law of God other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous be he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he offered Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was embodied through his works by being an obeyer of God but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

In Romans 10:5-8 Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is based on faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life!

 

[Soyeong]

This Theard is for 'Discussion of Romans" as the title says. I'll start it off with a short introduction.

Author: Paul the apostle
Date: A.D. 57–58
Background: Though both Paul and Peter were apparently martyred in Rome, it is unlikely that either was the founder of the church in that city. Possibly some who were converted on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:10) carried the gospel back to the imperial city; or it may be that converts of Paul or of other apostles founded the church there. We do know that the membership was predominantly Gentile (Romans1:13; 11:13; 15:15–16).

Overview: Paul’s letter to Rome is better known in the church than any other. Its systematic presentation of major theological themes is foundational for understanding the nature of the Christian faith, the righteousness of God, salvation, and the roles of Israel and the church. And because Paul was not acquainted with the church at Rome, the letter is less personal and culture-bound than his others; thus, it appears more universally and directly applicable to the church through the ages.

Read Romans as if for the first time and look for its unique revelation of God’s attributes and actions. You will be powerfully impressed by God’s righteousness, just wrath, unfailing love, absolute faithfulness, awesome sovereignty, and unique wisdom—not to mention His incredible gift of life.

Book of Romans | Guide with Key Information and Resources

Discover how the Gospel reveals God’s character and creates a new humanity in the book of Romans in the Bible. Explore the book’s main themes such as righteousness, covenant, love, and unity through videos, podcasts, and more from BibleProject™.

bibleproject.com

In Romans 7-8:2, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which the Law of the Spirit has freed us from. In Romans 8:3-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God. The Law of God leads us to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5).

Verses that refer to something that would be absurd for Paul to delight in doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God while verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin. For example, it would be absurd for Paul to delight in causing sin to increase (Romans 5:20), or in being held captive to sin (Romans 7:6), but rather that is the role of the law of sin.

In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, but the law of sin. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under it but are not under the law of sin. Moreover, the rest on Romans 6 is contrasting these two directing. In Romans 6:16, we are slaves to the one that we obey, either the law of sin which leads to death or of obedience to the Law of God, which leads to righteousness. In Romans 6:17-23, we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so being a doer of the Law of God is His gift of eternal life in Christ.

In Romans 7:1-4, there is no point where the woman was set free from obeying the Law of God, so there is nothing that leads to the conclusion that we that in the same way we have been set free from God's gift of eternal life in Christ. We do not need to die to what Christ taught in order to unified with Christ or die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to bear fruit form him, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from bearing fruit for Him, namely the law of sin. We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around.

 

[Amos]

Romans is no ordinary letter; it is a sophisticated argument. One characteristic of letters in the bible is that authors expected the specified audience of their letters to understand them.

Whether authors always communicated adequately or readers always understood adequately is another question, but most authors at least tried to communicate so as to be clearly understood.

That still persists in our time. Hopefully the discussion of the books of the bible will help us all.

 

[mikesw]

Romans is no ordinary letter; it is a sophisticated argument. One characteristic of letters in the bible is that authors expected the specified audience of their letters to understand them.

Whether authors always communicated adequately or readers always understood adequately is another question, but most authors at least tried to communicate so as to be clearly understood.

That still persists in our time. Hopefully the discussion of the books of the bible will help us all.

I'm trying to write out a new understanding of the context of Romans and how the first three chapters make full logical sense. This also becomes a key to understanding the rest of the letter. One critical aspect that functions as a verification of the analysis involves showing how Romans 1:18-2:1 can make full sense rather than us having to guess.

 

[Aeliana]

I'm trying to write out a new understanding of the context of Romans and how the first three chapters make full logical sense. This also becomes a key to understanding the rest of the letter. One critical aspect that functions as a verification of the analysis involves showing how Romans 1:18-2:1 can make full sense rather than us having to guess.

I found this and it make me want to learn about it.

There are three aspects about God evident to everyone through what God has made: His invisible attributes, His eternal power, and His divine nature (Romans 1:19–20). Because He has allowed Himself to be known in those ways, no one has an excuse for their unrighteousness. All are accountable to Him as their Creator.

Even though everyone has an awareness of God, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness refuse to acknowledge God or give Him thanks. They know the truth about God, but they actively suppress it.
from got?

 

[mikesw]

I found this and it make me want to learn about it.

There are three aspects about God evident to everyone through what God has made: His invisible attributes, His eternal power, and His divine nature (Romans 1:19–20). Because He has allowed Himself to be known in those ways, no one has an excuse for their unrighteousness. All are accountable to Him as their Creator.

Even though everyone has an awareness of God, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness refuse to acknowledge God or give Him thanks. They know the truth about God, but they actively suppress it.
from got?

The unusual finding in my analysis is that the recipients of the letter saw Rom 1:18-21 as speaking of Israel who knew God and were confirmed of who God is by creation around them. They then had sufficient knowledge and relationship to turn against him and dishonor him. Of course there is more to share here since Paul was not trying to speak evil of his countryfolk.

 

[Aeliana]

The unusual finding in my analysis is that the recipients of the letter saw Rom 1:18-21 as speaking of Israel who knew God and were confirmed of who God is by creation around them. They then had sufficient knowledge and relationship to turn against him and dishonor him. Of course there is more to share here since Paul was not trying to speak evil of his countryfolk.

Well God did bring them out of Egypt and Moses told them a lot about God. So, they did have sufficient knowledge and relationship with Him.

And yet God said this about them:

Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Deuteronomy 9:13

 

[mikesw]

Well God did bring them out of Egypt and Moses told them a lot about God. So, they did have sufficient knowledge and relationship with Him.

And yet God said this about them:

Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Deuteronomy 9:13

That is sort of a forgotten background for the New Testament story. But Christ came to give the good news (and he is the good news!).

 

[civic]

I remember our pastor 15 years ago in his introduction of Romans- he preached through it for an entire year quoted several sources from the early church throughout church history said it was the greatest treatise every written by any man in human history. A real thorough and systematic theological work.

 

[Amos]

I remember our pastor 15 years ago in his introduction of Romans- he preached through it for an entire year quoted several sources from the early church throughout church history said it was the greatest treatise every written by any man in human history. A real thorough and systematic theological work.

Well that just shows us how important it is for us to discuss today.

This is the verse from Romans I love.

THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit. Romans 8:1.

 

[Aeliana]

That is sort of a forgotten background for the New Testament story. But Christ came to give the good news (and he is the good news!).

The Best news ever. I'm so glad he set me free

 

[Angelo]

When we speak of Paul and “Judaism,” we are usually thinking in anachronistic terms. Paul, like most of the earliest Christian movement even in the Diaspora, was Jewish. Modern Western readers distinguish “Judaism” and “Christianity” as distinct religions, but the Christian movement, as it came to be called, viewed itself as carrying on the biblical faith of patriarchs and prophets in view of end-time fulfillment in Christ, demonstrated by the eschatological gift of the Spirit.

 

[mikesw]

When we speak of Paul and “Judaism,” we are usually thinking in anachronistic terms. Paul, like most of the earliest Christian movement even in the Diaspora, was Jewish. Modern Western readers distinguish “Judaism” and “Christianity” as distinct religions, but the Christian movement, as it came to be called, viewed itself as carrying on the biblical faith of patriarchs and prophets in view of end-time fulfillment in Christ, demonstrated by the eschatological gift of the Spirit.

Some effort has pushed the discussion of Paul and the followers of Christ too far into Judaism, as if they have to follow Jewish practices of the first century Judaism. But the real basis is that they follow the Christ who came in accord with the Law and Prophets. They must follow the God of Israel who then has been recognized as God overall. It is the gentiles claim to be under this umbrella that led to Jewish harsh reaction against the gentiles while trying to get the circumcised. Albeit, the push for adherence to the laws and circumcision probably was more like Samson getting the Philistines circumcised rather than an attempt to make better adherents to Judaism.

 

[Angelo]

Some effort has pushed the discussion of Paul and the followers of Christ too far into Judaism, as if they have to follow Jewish practices of the first century Judaism. But the real basis is that they follow the Christ who came in accord with the Law and Prophets. They must follow the God of Israel who then has been recognized as God overall. It is the gentiles claim to be under this umbrella that led to Jewish harsh reaction against the gentiles while trying to get the circumcised. Albeit, the push for adherence to the laws and circumcision probably was more like Samson getting the Philistines circumcised rather than an attempt to make better adherents to Judaism.

Some are real hung up on that.