Abraham
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
No, Abraham by faith obeyed the call to go to the land where he would receive his inheritance (Hebrews 11:8).
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it a central part of the Gospel message, which was in accordance him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which was the Gospel that made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5), and which he spread to his children and those of his household in accordance with the promise (Genesis 18:19). So Abraham believed the promise since his introduction in Genesis 12 and actively worked in order to bring it about.
If you are interested, then there are traditions within Judaism about how Abraham turned from idolatry.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it a central part of the Gospel message, which was in accordance him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which was the Gospel that made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5), and which he spread to his children and those of his household in accordance with the promise (Genesis 18:19). So Abraham believed the promise since his introduction in Genesis 12 and actively worked in order to bring it about.
If you are interested, then there are traditions within Judaism about how Abraham turned from idolatry.
In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith for Abraham and everyone else.
I was speaking about the Law of God, not about works of the law, and I did not say anything about becoming justified as the result of our obedience to it.
If you agree that it is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of sin and that we should refrain from doing what God has given knowledge to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey the Law of God.
Diserner
Active Member
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse;
for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(Gal. 3 NKJ)
for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."
But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."
Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us
For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(Gal. 3 NKJ)
brightfame52
Active Member
No, evidence of Abraham being saved, regenerated is when he by Faith first obeyed God Heb 11:8
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Do you think that the correct interpretation of those verses is that God is a giver of unreliable instructions that should not be trusted and that the way to be blessed is by becoming a doer of what God has revealed to be sin while the way to be cursed is by obediently trusting in God's instructions for how to be blessed?
We can't earn our eternal life or righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of doing that in the first place, but that doesn't mean that we are not obligated to obey it for the purposes for which God has commanded it. The way to have faith in Jesus Christ is not by rejecting all that he is. In Act 3:25-26, Jesus was sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, not in order to curse us by causing us to be free to become doers of what the Law of God reveals to be wickedness.
Seabass
Active Member
So he was not saved by faith alone at Gen 15:6 as some people claim.
Seabass
Active Member
Joshua 24:2
"And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods."
What Joshua writes MAY give some indication that Abraham MIGHT have been involved in idolatry, but it does not specifically say he was. Many commentators think otherwise:
Barnes:
"It is not stated that Abraham himself was an idolater, though his fathers were. Jewish tradition asserts that Abraham while in Ur of the Chaldees was persecuted for his abhorrence of idolatry, and hence, was called away by God from his native land. "
Coffman:
"Both Terah (Abraham's father) and Nahor, his uncle, were idolaters, but it is NOT stated that Abraham was an idolater. There is no reason to doubt the Jewish tradition that, "Abraham, while in Ur of the Chaldees was persecuted for his abhorrence of idolatry, and hence, was called away by God from his native land."(F19)"
Joseph Exell
"The Rabbinic tradition has great probability in it, that Abraham was driven out of his native country for refusing to worship idols. It is difficult to understand his call otherwise. No doubt his great and pure soul had learned to abhor the idolatrous and cruel worship of his countrymen. By inward struggles, perhaps by the vague survival of the simpler and truer faith which has been held to underlie every polytheistic system, he had "reached a purer air," and learned to adore the One True God. His family were led to embrace his doctrines, and they left their native land with him. But Haran, with its star worship, was no resting place for him."
Other think he was an idolator:
Adam Clarke:
" Probably Abraham as well as Terah his father was an idolater, till he received the call of God to leave that land. "
brightfame52
Active Member
He was saved like any other saved person, by grace through Jesus Christ. Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Seabass
Active Member
Saved by God's grace and his obedience.
brightfame52
Active Member
Saved by Gods Grace and Christs Obedience !
Seabass
Active Member
Christ was not the one commanded to leave his house land and kindred or to sacrifice Issac. That was commanded to Abraham and took Abraham's obedience in order to be justified.
brightfame52
Active Member
He was saved by Christs obedience Rom 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Abraham was a saved righteous man by Christs obedience. Thats why he lived by Faith, the Just or Righteous shall live by Faith
Seabass
Active Member
1) as pointed out many times, the verse says nothing about men being made sinners UNconditionally or made righteous UNconditionally. Men are made righteous conditionally by obedience...."obedience unto righteousness" Rom 6:16......"obeyed from the heart", then freed from sin/justified, Rom 6:17-18
2) Christ obedience in going to the cross was not a replacement/substitute for Abraham's obedience leaving his land, house & kindred and offering Isaac. Had Abraham not obeyed he would not have ever been justified. Christ's obedience made it possible for men to be saved but did not make being made righteous UNconditional whereby all are Universally saved. Those that conditionally obey Christ are the ones Christ saves, Heb 5:9.
3) my point of this thread still remains, Abraham was not saved in Gen 15:6 at the point of faith alone as so many people falsely claim he was.
brightfame52
Active Member
Ive told you many times b4, the condition is the Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Now does it so by the obedience of two or three shall many be made righteous ? Yes or No
