A Little Salvation story.

Baptism is REAL to the CC,,,as indeed it IS.
So it invites the child into the church.

That is not how they teach its meaning regarding infant baptism.

The Catholic Church teaches that infant baptism is...... essential for salvation..... and is required for all members of the Church.

The Cathoic Church believes that baptism removes original sin and makes the child a member of Christ.

This is "Baptismal Regenration" .........and its not true.
 
I'm glad I live in the good ole UAS with religious freedom an all.

My ancestors come to the USA from Ireland where they had to fight for what they believed, and they didn't have a keyboard to hide behind.

LOL
We don't always hide behind keyboards!
Sometimes we actually speak to real humans!!
:)
 
But, at one point in my life he corrected my wayward ways in a way that I knew to shape up or be lost forever.

I remember it so well and the very thoughts of that day ... all I can say is WOW.

I have had a life of ... well, lets just say I would not want anyone else to have had my life. But I always knew what Jesus did for us
on the cross. That never left me. And the Father had my back in 3 amazing ways, albeit me being totally undeserving....

Yes... I left Calvinism. Truth be told I did not even realize what it was until I got involved in forums.

But the first time I read that Calvin said .....while the others (the reprobate) would be “barred from access to” salvation and sentenced to “eternal death that was bot the heavenly Father I know. Not that I believe He will not punish justly but Calvin makes it seem like He deliberately, before time, decided He would make people for eternal death.. AND SOME GO SO FAR AS TO SAY DAMNATION.

Well.. I do not need to go into that.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is our helper. And Yes, I believe God allows us our free will and if we decline His offer to us... then that is on us. I know He also will help the undeserving. I know He also still heals people these days. (A tumor in my mother's breast, detected by 3 different thermography machines, just disappeared within 3 days on operation day)
What a great post MT!
So happy you left the snares of Calvinism.
Calvin said pretty nasty stuff. I have The Institutes right on my desk for reference.

We are all not deserving...which is why we should honor God, besides loving Him, and not change His loving
character, which Calvinism does.

And, I'd venture to say that you retained your salvation all along.
Sounds like you always kept Jesus near,,,,even through sinning.

When I taught kids I would always tell them to keep Jesus near...even when going through sinning....
and eventually their life would align with God's wish for them.

Nothing can snatch us out of Jesus' hand...but we can sure walk away.
I used to teach them not to walk away but to persist.
 
That is not how they teach its meaning regarding infant baptism.

The Catholic Church teaches that infant baptism is...... essential for salvation..... and is required for all members of the Church.

The Cathoic Church believes that baptism removes original sin and makes the child a member of Christ.

This is "Baptismal Regenration" .........and its not true.
I think I said the above.

I also said that the Holy Spirit MUST BE PUT INTO ACTION at some point.
 
And if a person is not born again, then getting water baptized 2300 times, wont help you, as its just water, all 2300 times.

No one is saved by water baptism., however, a lot of people who were water baptized, and told it "washed away their sin".. died and went to Hell today...
Reader.........You have to be so careful regarding what what you trust.........and where you place your faith, and if the person has believed that "water washed away their sin" then they are become the victim of a "water cult".
And being "im so sorry GOD i was wrong"....wont help a person who just died, and had believed the lie that Water Baptism washed away their sin.
Behold....the NT teaches that baptism washes away sin.
BUT
One needs to be a believer too.

Do you need scripture?

REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED
BE BAPTIZED AND WASH AWAY YOUR SINS
BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU
WHOEVER BELIEVES AND IS BAPTIZED WILL BE SAVED

(too tired to look up the verses. Sorry).
 
Sure.
Was born here.
Came back 25 years ago when daughter got married here.
Families are not so huge anymore.
I think the rate is 1.5,,,maybe less by now.
That is so cool. So your daughter, does she have Kids? Did she come to the US after the wedding? Sorry I don't mean to pry, it's just interesting to me. I don't intend to be intrusive.
 
And if a person is not born again, then getting water baptized 2300 times, wont help you, as its just water, all 2300 times.

No one is saved by water baptism., however, a lot of people who were water baptized, and told it "washed away their sin".. died and went to Hell today...
Reader.........You have to be so careful regarding what what you trust.........and where you place your faith, and if the person has believed that "water washed away their sin" then they are become the victim of a "water cult".
And being "im so sorry GOD i was wrong"....wont help a person who just died, and had believed the lie that Water Baptism washed away their sin.
I gave you a LIKE because I agree.
BUT
It matters WHY the person is being baptized.
Water ALONE will not save...
just like the Calvinist teaching of FAITH ALONE will not save...
but following God's will.

I'd say that Jesus taught that we are to be baptized...
Since Jesus is God...
we can say that baptism is God's will.

For whatever reason.
 
That is not how they teach its meaning regarding infant baptism.

The Catholic Church teaches that infant baptism is...... essential for salvation..... and is required for all members of the Church.

The Cathoic Church believes that baptism removes original sin and makes the child a member of Christ.

This is "Baptismal Regenration" .........and its not true.
You're half way there.
The above is true.
BUT
They also teach that we must EMBRACE the Holy Spirit when we become adults and can understand.
It's called the age of reason.

If, OTOH, an ADULT person wants to become Catholic, they do an entire year of study and then, yes,
one must be a believer and then can be baptized.
 
That is so cool. So your daughter, does she have Kids? Did she come to the US after the wedding? Sorry I don't mean to pry, it's just interesting to me. I don't intend to be intrusive.
LOL
Yes. She has two grown daughers.
So I guess that's 2.0?

She's been married 30 years...they go to the states many times.
As have my husband and I after we moved here.
Her daughters love it there.
But I am falling behind on the cultural issues over there...it's been too long.
You can't really know what's going on in a country unless you live there.
 
And if a person is not born again, then getting water baptized 2300 times, wont help you, as its just water, all 2300 times.

No one is saved by water baptism., however, a lot of people who were water baptized, and told it "washed away their sin".. died and went to Hell today...
Reader.........You have to be so careful regarding what what you trust.........and where you place your faith, and if the person has believed that "water washed away their sin" then they are become the victim of a "water cult".
And being "im so sorry GOD i was wrong"....wont help a person who just died, and had believed the lie that Water Baptism washed away their sin.
And those Presbyterians , I think, have make their baby baptisms into a more complicated endeavor....

When I had it impressed on me... the learning.... leading to first Holy Communion and confirmation in the church.... and without the proper understanding of Jesus and why God sent Him you could not partake...there is this, that I just read this AM and I am flabbergasted, and dumbfounded because anyone who has even witnessed a baby/young child baptism in and Presbyterian church from the USA, of America , Independent, or Evangelical how literally confusing they made it sound .


From the Presbytery of the United States.

Why We Baptize Infants​

John Murray​

From The Presbyterian Guardian, volume 5 (1938).

Baptism is one of the two ordinances of the New Testament that we call sacraments. Baptism is administered in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Baptism “in the name of” means “into union with” or “into the discipleship of.” Baptism in the one name of the triune God means baptism into subjection and devotion to the one living and true God. It means that the mark of the triune God is placed upon the recipients of it.

The placing of the mark of God upon us in baptism does not, however, mean that it is the authentication or seal of an ownership on the part of God or of discipleship on our part that is naturally and natively a fact. It is true that there is a natural ownership on the part of God and an inalienable devotion that we as His creatures owe to Him. But baptism is not the mark of an ownership that is natively and properly God’s nor of the devotion on our part that we naturally owe to Him. It is the mark of an ownership that is constituted, and of a devotion that is created, by redemptive action and relation. In other words, it is the mark of the Covenant of Grace. In it, and bearing it, we profess to renounce every other lordship but that of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in all the manifold relations that we come to sustain to each Person in the terms of the Covenant of Grace.

More specifically, baptism signifies washing or purification, washing from the defilement or pollution of sin by regeneration of the Holy Spirit, and washing from the guilt of sin by the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. Manifestly, it is only in and through Christ and His work that these blessings can be enjoyed. Union with Christ, therefore, is the bond that unites us to the participation of these blessings. Our Shorter Catechism gives a rather succinct and comprehensive definition when it says that “Baptism is a Sacrament, wherein the washing with water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, doth signify and seal our engrafting into Christ, and partaking of the benefits of the covenant of grace, and our engagement to be the Lord’s.”

We believe that Scripture warrants the dispensing of this ordinance of baptism to infants. Just as infants were circumcised under the Old Testament – and circumcision meant fundamentally the same thing as baptism, namely, the removal of the filth of sin and the imputation of the righteousness which is by faith – so children who stand in a similar covenant relation with God should be baptized under the New Testament. What, we may ask, does this precisely mean?

It means that children, even newly-born infants, stand in need of cleansing from sin both in its defilement and in its guilt. Children do not become sinful after they grow up or in the process of growing up. They are sinful from the very outset. They are conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity. They go astray from the very womb. No one who is truly convinced of sin remembers when he became sinful. He knows that it was not by some deliberate decision or act on his part that he became sinful. He knows that he was always sinful. Truly he recognizes that that innate and inherent sinfulness has been aggravated, and has repeatedly come to expression, in his voluntary acts of sin. But it was sinfulness already inherent that was aggravated, and came to expression, in his voluntary acts of sin. Furthermore, no one who is truly observant of the growth and development of others from infancy to adulthood remembers any point when sin first began to take possession of their heart and interest and purpose.

The disposition is always with us, and is at the present time particularly prevalent, to minimize the seriousness of this fact. There is the tendency to think and act in terms of the innocency of little children. The consequences of such an attitude are disastrous to all true nurture and instruction. For to eliminate from our attitude and conduct so basic and far-reaching a fact as the innate pollution of fallen human nature is to eliminate a fact without which nurture and direction must lead on to a perversion and falsehood manifoldly more desperate than that with which it began. Infant baptism is a perpetual reminder that infants need what baptism represents and there can be no escape from, or amelioration of, that awful fact.

But baptism is after all a sacrament of grace. And therefore it means more than the fact of need. It means that by the grace of God infants may enjoy precisely and fully what baptism represents. They may be regenerated by the Spirit and justified in the blood of Christ. They may be united to Christ in all the perfection of His mediatorial offices and in all the efficacy of His finished work.

We should pause to consider the preciousness of these truths. Truly we shall have no appreciation of their preciousness unless we are persuaded of that awful fact to which we have already made reference, namely, that of original sin. But if we sincerely face the fact of the dismal pollution of human nature in its present state, no human words can adequately express the joy we experience in the contemplation of that which baptism means for infants. We may briefly reflect on the preciousness of these truths for two considerations.

First, children may and often do die at a very early age. If they should die without regeneration and justification, they would be lost just as surely as others dying in an unregenerate state are finally lost. The baptism of children, then, means that the grace of God takes hold of children at a very early age, even from the very womb. That is to say, in other words, we must not exclude the operations of God’s efficacious and saving grace from the sphere or realm of earliest infanthood. It is to this truth our Lord gave His most insistent and emphatic testimony when He said, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.”

We would not, of course, be misunderstood when we assert this principle. We do not say that the operations of God’s saving grace are present in the heart of every infant. The fact is only too apparent that multitudes grow up to years of discretion and intelligence and show that the saving grace of God did not take hold of their hearts and minds in the days of their infancy. Neither are we taking the position necessarily that all who die in infancy are the recipients of the saving grace of God. For ourselves we must leave that question in the realm to which it belongs, namely, the unrevealed counsel of God. But it is nevertheless true – and that is the point we are now interested in stressing – that the grace of God is operative in the realm of the infant heart and mind. “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise.” What a blessed thought and hope and confidence is extended to believing parents when in baptism they commit their children to the regenerating and sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit and to the purging efficacy of the blood of Christ, so that, if perchance the Lord is pleased to remove them in infancy, they – believing parents – can plead and rest upon the promises of the Covenant of Grace on their behalf. It can surely be said of them that they have no need to mourn as those that have no hope.

But secondly we should appreciate the preciousness of these truths for the reason that children do not need to grow up to the years of discretion and intelligence before they become the Lord’s. Just as children are sinful before they come to the years of discretion and understanding, so by the sovereign grace of God they do not need to grow up before they become partakers of saving grace. They may grow up not only in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, but also in His favor and sanctifying grace. They may in their tenderest years be introduced into the family and household of the heavenly father. When believing parents present their children for baptism they are confessing that their children are innately sinful, they are confessing their need of regeneration and justification, but they are also pleading on the behalf of their children the regenerating and justifying grace of God. In reliance upon the promise that “the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children; to such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them,” they are entertaining the encouragement and the hope that “those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing; to shew that the Lord is upright; he is my rock and there is no unrighteousness in him.”

Baptism is the ordinance that initiates into the fellowship of the visible church. The visible church is a divine institution. It is the house and family of God. It is a divine sanctuary where God’s glory is made known. It is the channel along which normally the current of God’s saving grace flows. What a privilege it is for parents by divine authority in the reception of the ordinance of baptism to introduce their children into this blessed fellowship.

If infant baptism has the divine warrant, then what dishonor is offered to Christ and what irretrievable damage is done to the church and to the souls of children by refusing to introduce children into this glorious fellowship. No argument from apparent expediency, no seeming evangelistic fervor will counteract that dishonor to our Lord and that damage done to the souls of men.

In concluding this brief study of the meaning and privilege of infant baptism, there are two warnings that must be given. The first is that against the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We must not look upon baptism as having some semi-magical effect. Baptism derives all its efficacy from the sovereign grace of the Holy Spirit. We do well to remind ourselves of the words of our Shorter Catechism, “The Sacraments become effectual means of salvation, not from any virtue in them, or in him that doth administer them; but only by the blessing of Christ, and the working of his Spirit in them that by faith receive them.” We must never take for granted that the infant who is baptized is by that mere fact assured of eternal life. Baptism is certainly a means of grace which God has, in accordance with His appointment, abundantly honored and blessed throughout the whole history of the Christian church. But we must ever preserve the true evangelicalism of our Christian faith that, in the last analysis, we are not saved by any external rite or ordinance, but by the sovereign grace of God that works mysteriously, directly and efficaciously in the heart and soul of each individual whom He has appointed to salvation.

The second is that infant baptism does not relieve parents or guardians, as the case may be, of that solemn responsibility to instruct, warn, exhort, direct and protect the infant members of the Christian church committed to their care. we must repeat again the text we have already quoted, “The mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him and his righteousness unto children’s children, to such as keep his covenant and to those that remember his commandments to do them.” The encouragement derived from a divine promise must never be divorced from the discharge of the obligations involved. It is only in the atmosphere of obligation discharged, in a word, in the atmosphere of obedience to divine commandments, that faith in the divine promise can live and grow. Faith divorced from obedience is mockery and presumption.

______________________________
doh - Copy.gif Oy
 
Nothing can snatch us out of Jesus' hand...but we can sure walk away.

You can't walk away from a spiritual birth.

Stop trying to prove and believe, that Jesus's Salvation is only as good as your current behavior.

Do you really not comprehend that you came to Jesus as a LIFETIME SINNER.....and God accpted you "while you were YET a sinner".....and now, that God has taken a SINNER and given them His Salvation, this same person thinks......that their behavior is now WHY God will keep you, when He took you when you were a sinner.
 
I'd say that Jesus taught that we are to be baptized...
Since Jesus is God...
we can say that baptism is God's will.

And we are to "make disciples" and we are to "rightly divide the word".. and we are to "give to the poor".. and we are to "pray without ceasing".. and we are to "discern the times and the seasons".. and we are to "contend for the real faith". and we are to "present our bodies as a living sacrifice to God".


We are supposed to do many things.......and being water baptized after we are born again.
 
They also teach that we must EMBRACE the Holy Spirit when we become adults and can understand.
It's called the age of reason.

What you are treaching is not what the MaryCult teaches as the REASON an infant is water sprinkled.
They literally teach that this is Salvation for the infant, by water.

That's not true.

Now later, when they are able to recognize good vs evil, then they have come to that place where they can trust in Christ and be forgiven.

Infants are not in a situation where they need to be redeemed from sin.
So, if a baby dies, then the Christian Mother has a child waiting in heaven and they can take great comfort in that fact.
 
It means that children, even newly-born infants, stand in need of cleansing from sin both in its defilement and in its guilt.

______________________________
View attachment 1960 Oy

So, this that you posted.... is the cult thinking, the heretical teaching that WATER is able to wash away sin of an Infant.......and this is exactly the same for Adults.

This is the heresy, that claims that water baptism, can deal with your sin.

So, that literally denies the Cross of Christ where God's' Son's BLOOD and DEATH, dealt with the sin of the World.
 
And those Presbyterians , I think, have make their baby baptisms into a more complicated endeavor....

When I had it impressed on me... the learning.... leading to first Holy Communion and confirmation in the church.... and without the proper understanding of Jesus and why God sent Him you could not partake...there is this, that I just read this AM and I am flabbergasted, and dumbfounded because anyone who has even witnessed a baby/young child baptism in and Presbyterian church from the USA, of America , Independent, or Evangelical how literally confusing they made it sound .


From the Presbytery of the United States.

Why We Baptize Infants​

John Murray​

From The Presbyterian Guardian, volume 5 (1938).

Baptism is one of the two ordinances of the New Testament that we call sacraments. Baptism is administered in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Baptism “in the name of” means “into union with” or “into the discipleship of.” Baptism in the one name of the triune God means baptism into subjection and devotion to the one living and true God. It means that the mark of the triune God is placed upon the recipients of it.

The placing of the mark of God upon us in baptism does not, however, mean that it is the authentication or seal of an ownership on the part of God or of discipleship on our part that is naturally and natively a fact. It is true that there is a natural ownership on the part of God and an inalienable devotion that we as His creatures owe to Him. But baptism is not the mark of an ownership that is natively and properly God’s nor of the devotion on our part that we naturally owe to Him. It is the mark of an ownership that is constituted, and of a devotion that is created, by redemptive action and relation. In other words, it is the mark of the Covenant of Grace. In it, and bearing it, we profess to renounce every other lordship but that of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in all the manifold relations that we come to sustain to each Person in the terms of the Covenant of Grace.

More specifically, baptism signifies washing or purification, washing from the defilement or pollution of sin by regeneration of the Holy Spirit, and washing from the guilt of sin by the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. Manifestly, it is only in and through Christ and His work that these blessings can be enjoyed. Union with Christ, therefore, is the bond that unites us to the participation of these blessings. Our Shorter Catechism gives a rather succinct and comprehensive definition when it says that “Baptism is a Sacrament, wherein the washing with water, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, doth signify and seal our engrafting into Christ, and partaking of the benefits of the covenant of grace, and our engagement to be the Lord’s.”

We believe that Scripture warrants the dispensing of this ordinance of baptism to infants. Just as infants were circumcised under the Old Testament – and circumcision meant fundamentally the same thing as baptism, namely, the removal of the filth of sin and the imputation of the righteousness which is by faith – so children who stand in a similar covenant relation with God should be baptized under the New Testament. What, we may ask, does this precisely mean?

It means that children, even newly-born infants, stand in need of cleansing from sin both in its defilement and in its guilt. Children do not become sinful after they grow up or in the process of growing up. They are sinful from the very outset. They are conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity. They go astray from the very womb. No one who is truly convinced of sin remembers when he became sinful. He knows that it was not by some deliberate decision or act on his part that he became sinful. He knows that he was always sinful. Truly he recognizes that that innate and inherent sinfulness has been aggravated, and has repeatedly come to expression, in his voluntary acts of sin. But it was sinfulness already inherent that was aggravated, and came to expression, in his voluntary acts of sin. Furthermore, no one who is truly observant of the growth and development of others from infancy to adulthood remembers any point when sin first began to take possession of their heart and interest and purpose.

The disposition is always with us, and is at the present time particularly prevalent, to minimize the seriousness of this fact. There is the tendency to think and act in terms of the innocency of little children. The consequences of such an attitude are disastrous to all true nurture and instruction. For to eliminate from our attitude and conduct so basic and far-reaching a fact as the innate pollution of fallen human nature is to eliminate a fact without which nurture and direction must lead on to a perversion and falsehood manifoldly more desperate than that with which it began. Infant baptism is a perpetual reminder that infants need what baptism represents and there can be no escape from, or amelioration of, that awful fact.

But baptism is after all a sacrament of grace. And therefore it means more than the fact of need. It means that by the grace of God infants may enjoy precisely and fully what baptism represents. They may be regenerated by the Spirit and justified in the blood of Christ. They may be united to Christ in all the perfection of His mediatorial offices and in all the efficacy of His finished work.

We should pause to consider the preciousness of these truths. Truly we shall have no appreciation of their preciousness unless we are persuaded of that awful fact to which we have already made reference, namely, that of original sin. But if we sincerely face the fact of the dismal pollution of human nature in its present state, no human words can adequately express the joy we experience in the contemplation of that which baptism means for infants. We may briefly reflect on the preciousness of these truths for two considerations.

First, children may and often do die at a very early age. If they should die without regeneration and justification, they would be lost just as surely as others dying in an unregenerate state are finally lost. The baptism of children, then, means that the grace of God takes hold of children at a very early age, even from the very womb. That is to say, in other words, we must not exclude the operations of God’s efficacious and saving grace from the sphere or realm of earliest infanthood. It is to this truth our Lord gave His most insistent and emphatic testimony when He said, “Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.”

We would not, of course, be misunderstood when we assert this principle. We do not say that the operations of God’s saving grace are present in the heart of every infant. The fact is only too apparent that multitudes grow up to years of discretion and intelligence and show that the saving grace of God did not take hold of their hearts and minds in the days of their infancy. Neither are we taking the position necessarily that all who die in infancy are the recipients of the saving grace of God. For ourselves we must leave that question in the realm to which it belongs, namely, the unrevealed counsel of God. But it is nevertheless true – and that is the point we are now interested in stressing – that the grace of God is operative in the realm of the infant heart and mind. “Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise.” What a blessed thought and hope and confidence is extended to believing parents when in baptism they commit their children to the regenerating and sanctifying grace of the Holy Spirit and to the purging efficacy of the blood of Christ, so that, if perchance the Lord is pleased to remove them in infancy, they – believing parents – can plead and rest upon the promises of the Covenant of Grace on their behalf. It can surely be said of them that they have no need to mourn as those that have no hope.

But secondly we should appreciate the preciousness of these truths for the reason that children do not need to grow up to the years of discretion and intelligence before they become the Lord’s. Just as children are sinful before they come to the years of discretion and understanding, so by the sovereign grace of God they do not need to grow up before they become partakers of saving grace. They may grow up not only in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, but also in His favor and sanctifying grace. They may in their tenderest years be introduced into the family and household of the heavenly father. When believing parents present their children for baptism they are confessing that their children are innately sinful, they are confessing their need of regeneration and justification, but they are also pleading on the behalf of their children the regenerating and justifying grace of God. In reliance upon the promise that “the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children; to such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them,” they are entertaining the encouragement and the hope that “those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God. They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing; to shew that the Lord is upright; he is my rock and there is no unrighteousness in him.”

Baptism is the ordinance that initiates into the fellowship of the visible church. The visible church is a divine institution. It is the house and family of God. It is a divine sanctuary where God’s glory is made known. It is the channel along which normally the current of God’s saving grace flows. What a privilege it is for parents by divine authority in the reception of the ordinance of baptism to introduce their children into this blessed fellowship.

If infant baptism has the divine warrant, then what dishonor is offered to Christ and what irretrievable damage is done to the church and to the souls of children by refusing to introduce children into this glorious fellowship. No argument from apparent expediency, no seeming evangelistic fervor will counteract that dishonor to our Lord and that damage done to the souls of men.

In concluding this brief study of the meaning and privilege of infant baptism, there are two warnings that must be given. The first is that against the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We must not look upon baptism as having some semi-magical effect. Baptism derives all its efficacy from the sovereign grace of the Holy Spirit. We do well to remind ourselves of the words of our Shorter Catechism, “The Sacraments become effectual means of salvation, not from any virtue in them, or in him that doth administer them; but only by the blessing of Christ, and the working of his Spirit in them that by faith receive them.” We must never take for granted that the infant who is baptized is by that mere fact assured of eternal life. Baptism is certainly a means of grace which God has, in accordance with His appointment, abundantly honored and blessed throughout the whole history of the Christian church. But we must ever preserve the true evangelicalism of our Christian faith that, in the last analysis, we are not saved by any external rite or ordinance, but by the sovereign grace of God that works mysteriously, directly and efficaciously in the heart and soul of each individual whom He has appointed to salvation.

The second is that infant baptism does not relieve parents or guardians, as the case may be, of that solemn responsibility to instruct, warn, exhort, direct and protect the infant members of the Christian church committed to their care. we must repeat again the text we have already quoted, “The mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him and his righteousness unto children’s children, to such as keep his covenant and to those that remember his commandments to do them.” The encouragement derived from a divine promise must never be divorced from the discharge of the obligations involved. It is only in the atmosphere of obligation discharged, in a word, in the atmosphere of obedience to divine commandments, that faith in the divine promise can live and grow. Faith divorced from obedience is mockery and presumption.

______________________________
View attachment 1960 Oy
Oy is right!
Poor baby.
He was just born a minute ago and already he's repsonsible and guilty for Adam's sin!



1747836058160.png
 
LOL
Yes. She has two grown daughers.
So I guess that's 2.0?

She's been married 30 years...they go to the states many times.
As have my husband and I after we moved here.
Her daughters love it there.
But I am falling behind on the cultural issues over there...it's been too long.
You can't really know what's going on in a country unless you live there.
Family is so important for us. Cultural issues here are just like the bible tells us they will be. But we have a hope, His name is Jesus. And we are going to the place that's the best where we will be with Him and our saved loved ones for all eternity.:D
 
So, this that you posted.... is the cult thinking, the heretical teaching that WATER is able to wash away sin of an Infant.......and this is exactly the same for Adults.

This is the heresy, that claims that water baptism, can deal with your sin.

So, that literally denies the Cross of Christ where God's' Son's BLOOD and DEATH, dealt with the sin of the World.
I agree.....

I had never read it in full like that in all my years. It sickens me, but so does the fact that The Presbyterians still
link themselves... even if not vocal about it.... with Calvin.

The baptisms they do today are such that they say the babe is now baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit but
nothing about sins or being saved are mentioned... only that we are welcoming this one into the church family and we all are responsible for raising the child in the ways of the church.

It is now almost like a dedication of the babe to God....

Just makes me wonder exactly how those people got things so wrong... (I am talking about the predestined people)...
 
The infant baptism we do at the church I'm a member of is called a Dedication. There is no specific Scripture reference to baby dedication as some of us modern-day Christians know and practice it, but there are abundant references to the family unit and the need to train up children in “the way they should go” so that, “when they are old they will not turn from it.”

In my reading of the New Testament, it is difficult to tell if or how baby dedication would have been observed. However, is it clear that the raising of children is undoubtedly important in the life of the Church.

So, I say it's a step in the right direction but not the same as baptism for adults.
 
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