Title: So You Think Predestination Started When and With Whom?

[FreeInChrist]

This is my opinion.

In the A Little Salvation Story thread reply # 185 " @David Koberstein wrote...
"I'm amazed at the antisemitism on this website. But I guess I'm not really surprised."

I wanted to immediately respond how right he is, and I for one could start by naming names.

But rather then do that I am more concerned with what the supposed "Christians" really know or understand about what our heavenly Father has done and offered us.

Have you all forgotten that when Jesus was born He was born to a young Jewish girl by the name of Mary. And she was betrothed to a Jewish man by the name of Joseph?

This made Jesus to be born as a Jew.

He was born in a Jewish region, and His identity was deeply rooted in the Jewish culture AND RELIGIOUS practices of His time, and his ethnicity had a bearing not only on His teachings but also where He lived and who he taught.
And His lineage had to trace back to David. In Mathew it traces through Joseph and in Luke it traces through Mary... SHOWING JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS/IS TO THE HEAVENLY FATHER OF HIS ETHNICITY. And the tying in of the Jewish people as His Chosen.

Make no mistake they were His Chosen.

Who here... a show of hands please... remembers the scripture and Jesus' words
Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”?

Why was that???

Jer 50:6 tells us... “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. They have made them turn aside on the mountains; They have gone along from mountain to hill And have forgotten their resting place.

Stop for a moment and reflect on what this actually tells us. One would certainly think
the term Chosen would indicate a predestined calling... wouldn't you think?

I think not because If Jesus HAD to come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.... because they had been led astray ... if they were predestined the prophets of old who declared a Messiah would be coming must not have had much influence so eventually, some 6000 years from creation Jesus had to be sent... to set the record straight.

God simply could not count on or trust mankind because they mess things up. Dont you look art me that way... we all do.

It would appear that it was not by predestination those folks were living. It would appear that the prophets who preached the Messiah missed out by not explaining the "elect" to them, so, It would appear they were living their lives in that terrible state of free will. (NOW IS NO TIME TO ARGUE THAT)

Perhaps now would be a good time though, to pause and reflect on if the Jewish people that Jesus was sent for were, indeed, included in predestination? I say NO.

Jeremiah 1:5 does not mean all were known before but certain people were preselected for specific jobs... such as prophets.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Those predestined had specific jobs to do.

The phrase "I chose you" is found in John 15:16, where Jesus tells His disciples, " “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you." This emphasizes the idea that Jesus selected His Apostles and Disciples for a specific purpose in His ministry.

The Gospel Coalition says this.....

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/why-did-jesus-say-he-came-only-for-israel/

Jesus' ministry was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel precisely, because he is the good shepherd come to gather the renewed Israel around himself and to launch their trajectory into the world with the healing grace God always intended to flow through his chosen people. (The Jewish people)

Say what... ? I hear you thinking "chosen people certainly means they were predestined." Right?

The link continues with

The Gospels reveal a Jesus focused on Israel. In fact, his ministry appears to be focused so relentlessly on the Jewish people that many scholars have debated whether Jesus was concerned with outsiders at all. When taking into consideration the nations-focused mission of the early church as directed by the risen Jesus that was so prominent in Christian thinking, it is striking to discover that this global impulse appears to be absent from Jesus’ earthly ministry.

Furthermore, the Gospels record Jesus as being up front about his nationalistic intentions. He claimed that his mission was only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24), a statement made upon his initial refusal of a Gentile woman who asked for healing for her daughter.

It is interesting to note the parallel between the global vision of the risen Jesus as manifested in the actions of the early church and the nationalistic vision of Jesus’ earthly ministry as manifested in the disciples’ avoidance of Gentile towns in favor of “the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt 10:5-6, 23).

Other statements reinforce Jewish priority during the ministry of Jesus, including his decision to choose twelve disciples (corresponding, most likely, to the twelve tribes of Israel) and the fact that the “God of Israel” received the glory when Jesus did engage in brief ministry in Gentile territory (Matt 15:31).

So for all of you who have ever had any antisemitic thoughts you best think again for a close study of scriptures certainly would lead one to believe when Jesus said He was only sent to the lost house of Israel... He was not lying.

WE know from the New testament that Jesus told His disciples in Matt 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;

The Jews were always first in God's mind, They formed the branches of the olive tree, that save for there being those that were broken off, there would have been no room for us to be grafted in...... for it seems that we only got to fill a space.

That in and of itself should tell anyone that not everyone was predestined but if anyone was, it would have had to be the Jews, first..... but obviously they had free will to make it so that The Father had to send The Son to go after the lost sheep that wandered away.

Well, Ill stop now because you likely have not read this far. But if you have YOU, as well as all of use should be thanking God's chosen, for they are the ones who actually got us to the glorious position in Christ Jesus that we have. Amen, amen

 

[David Koberstein]

This is my opinion.

In the A Little Salvation Story thread reply # 185 " @David Koberstein wrote...
"I'm amazed at the antisemitism on this website. But I guess I'm not really surprised."

I wanted to immediately respond how right he is, and I for one could start by naming names.

But rather then do that I am more concerned with what the supposed "Christians" really know or understand about what our heavenly Father has done and offered us.

Have you all forgotten that when Jesus was born He was born to a young Jewish girl by the name of Mary. And she was betrothed to a Jewish man by the name of Joseph?

This made Jesus to be born as a Jew.

He was born in a Jewish region, and His identity was deeply rooted in the Jewish culture AND RELIGIOUS practices of His time, and his ethnicity had a bearing not only on His teachings but also where He lived and who he taught.
And His lineage had to trace back to David. In Mathew it traces through Joseph and in Luke it traces through Mary... SHOWING JUST HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS/IS TO THE HEAVENLY FATHER OF HIS ETHNICITY. And the tying in of the Jewish people as His Chosen.

Make no mistake they were His Chosen.

Who here... a show of hands please... remembers the scripture and Jesus' words
Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”?

Why was that???

Jer 50:6 tells us... “My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. They have made them turn aside on the mountains; They have gone along from mountain to hill And have forgotten their resting place.

Stop for a moment and reflect on what this actually tells us. One would certainly think
the term Chosen would indicate a predestined calling... wouldn't you think?

I think not because If Jesus HAD to come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.... because they had been led astray ... if they were predestined the prophets of old who declared a Messiah would be coming must not have had much influence so eventually, some 6000 years from creation Jesus had to be sent... to set the record straight.

God simply could not count on or trust mankind because they mess things up. Dont you look art me that way... we all do.

It would appear that it was not by predestination those folks were living. It would appear that the prophets who preached the Messiah missed out by not explaining the "elect" to them, so, It would appear they were living their lives in that terrible state of free will. (NOW IS NO TIME TO ARGUE THAT)

Perhaps now would be a good time though, to pause and reflect on if the Jewish people that Jesus was sent for were, indeed, included in predestination? I say NO.

Jeremiah 1:5 does not mean all were known before but certain people were preselected for specific jobs... such as prophets.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Those predestined had specific jobs to do.

The phrase "I chose you" is found in John 15:16, where Jesus tells His disciples, " “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you." This emphasizes the idea that Jesus selected His Apostles and Disciples for a specific purpose in His ministry.

The Gospel Coalition says this.....

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/why-did-jesus-say-he-came-only-for-israel/

Jesus' ministry was to the lost sheep of the house of Israel precisely, because he is the good shepherd come to gather the renewed Israel around himself and to launch their trajectory into the world with the healing grace God always intended to flow through his chosen people. (The Jewish people)

Say what... ? I hear you thinking "chosen people certainly means they were predestined." Right?

The link continues with

The Gospels reveal a Jesus focused on Israel. In fact, his ministry appears to be focused so relentlessly on the Jewish people that many scholars have debated whether Jesus was concerned with outsiders at all. When taking into consideration the nations-focused mission of the early church as directed by the risen Jesus that was so prominent in Christian thinking, it is striking to discover that this global impulse appears to be absent from Jesus’ earthly ministry.

Furthermore, the Gospels record Jesus as being up front about his nationalistic intentions. He claimed that his mission was only to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt 15:24), a statement made upon his initial refusal of a Gentile woman who asked for healing for her daughter.

It is interesting to note the parallel between the global vision of the risen Jesus as manifested in the actions of the early church and the nationalistic vision of Jesus’ earthly ministry as manifested in the disciples’ avoidance of Gentile towns in favor of “the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt 10:5-6, 23).

Other statements reinforce Jewish priority during the ministry of Jesus, including his decision to choose twelve disciples (corresponding, most likely, to the twelve tribes of Israel) and the fact that the “God of Israel” received the glory when Jesus did engage in brief ministry in Gentile territory (Matt 15:31).

So for all of you who have ever had any antisemitic thoughts you best think again for a close study of scriptures certainly would lead one to believe when Jesus said He was only sent to the lost house of Israel... He was not lying.

WE know from the New testament that Jesus told His disciples in Matt 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans;

The Jews were always first in God's mind, They formed the branches of the olive tree, that save for there being those that were broken off, there would have been no room for us to be grafted in...... for it seems that we only got to fill a space.

That in and of itself should tell anyone that not everyone was predestined but if anyone was, it would have had to be the Jews, first..... but obviously they had free will to make it so that The Father had to send The Son to go after the lost sheep that wandered away.

Well, Ill stop now because you likely have not read this far. But if you have YOU, as well as all of use should be thanking God's chosen, for they are the ones who actually got us to the glorious position in Christ Jesus that we have. Amen, amen

Blessings to you and the utmost wisdom in your words! ברכות לך והחכמה שבדבריך!
Shabbat Shalom! שבת שלום!

 

[Quintus5]

I am not clear on what you two mean about antisemitism and how it fits here.
There is a timeline prophecy for Gods people (70 weeks). Because the time was not fulfilled, the gospel was given to the Jews, bbut when Stephen was stoned , shortly after that, Saul was converted and preached to the Gentiles.Acts 13:46 Also, God had originally planned that the Jewish nation would be a light to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6
"I will give you as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

Isaiah 49:6
"I will also make You a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth." I dont think the Gospel preached to the Gentiles has anything to do with antisemitism. Many of the Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah. Is the rejection of Christ what you are talking about?

Also what do you make of the parable in Matt 21:33-43? And what did Jesus mean when he said "Your house is left unto you desolate"Matt 23:38. These are not antisemitic. These are general statements. Many of the Jews were converted as were Gentiles.
I am just wondering what you are speaking of.

 

[David Koberstein]

I am not clear on what you two mean about antisemitism and how it fits here.
There is a timeline prophecy for Gods people (70 weeks). Because the time was not fulfilled, the gospel was given to the Jews, bbut when Stephen was stoned , shortly after that, Saul was converted and preached to the Gentiles.Acts 13:46 Also, God had originally planned that the Jewish nation would be a light to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6
"I will give you as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

Isaiah 49:6
"I will also make You a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth." I dont think the Gospel preached to the Gentiles has anything to do with antisemitism. Many of the Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah. Is the rejection of Christ what you are talking about?

Also what do you make of the parable in Matt 21:33-43? And what did Jesus mean when he said "Your house is left unto you desolate"Matt 23:38. These are not antisemitic. These are general statements. Many of the Jews were converted as were Gentiles.
I am just wondering what you are speaking of.

If you don't know what antisemitism is, your probably not from this planet. Michael Brown has a book out called "Antisemitism in the Church". You probably should read it.
Shalom

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am not clear on what you two mean about antisemitism and how it fits here.

I had a reply ready to post and it vanished, so I will simply say this.

There are, to this day, people who hate the Jews. These very same people, many of them claim to love Jesus. )I suspect they feel they would be on the yellow brick road to hell if they did not at least believe.)

But these people are blinded to the truth because of their hatred.

Some of which are right here in this and other forums. (I could start a list of names)

And that is why I wrote the OP as I did. It is not the times of old. What we call biblical times. It is alive and well and world wide in 2025.

But to those who claim to be Christian, it is truly a smack in God's face to deny what His plan was from Adam onward.

It is the Christian who stands to lose the most because of believing as many do.

That extends to the colleges, the televangelists, and others

Romans 11:11 tells us 1:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

I'll stop with reminding my OP is about Jesus, and his lineage. ..... and the importance to God.
And reminding we were NOT in the beginning to be included. We were simply grafted in, not one of the solid branches.

There is a timeline prophecy for Gods people (70 weeks). Because the time was not fulfilled, the gospel was given to the Jews, bbut when Stephen was stoned , shortly after that, Saul was converted and preached to the Gentiles.Acts 13:46 Also, God had originally planned that the Jewish nation would be a light to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6
"I will give you as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

Isaiah 49:6
"I will also make You a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth." I dont think the Gospel preached to the Gentiles has anything to do with antisemitism. Many of the Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah. Is the rejection of Christ what you are talking about?

Also what do you make of the parable in Matt 21:33-43? And what did Jesus mean when he said "Your house is left unto you desolate"Matt 23:38. These are not antisemitic. These are general statements. Many of the Jews were converted as were Gentiles.
I am just wondering what you are speaking of.

 

[David Koberstein]

I had a reply ready to post and it vanished, so I will simply say this.

There are, to this day, people who hate the Jews. These very same people, many of them claim to love Jesus. )I suspect they feel they would be on the yellow brick road to hell if they did not at least believe.)

But these people are blinded to the truth because of their hatred.

Some of which are right here in this and other forums. (I could start a list of names)

And that is why I wrote the OP as I did. It is not the times of old. What we call biblical times. It is alive and well and world wide in 2025.

But to those who claim to be Christian, it is truly a smack in God's face to deny what His plan was from Adam onward.

It is the Christian who stands to lose the most because of believing as many do.

That extends to the colleges, the televangelists, and others

Romans 11:11 tells us 1:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

I'll stop with reminding my OP is about Jesus, and his lineage. ..... and the importance to God.
And reminding we were NOT in the beginning to be included. We were simply grafted in, not one of the solid branches.

 

[civic]

View attachment 2146

great illustration- we gentiles ( Myself ) were grafted into the olive tree ( Jews/ Israel ). I reject replacement theology in any way, shape or form. It makes a mockery out of Gods promises to the Jews with so many prophecies yet to be fulfilled by them in their land. They take all the literal promises and "spiritualize" them into the church. They are two distinct people groups and the Tribulation period, the time of Jacobs trouble is for the Jewish people whom God will rescue in the end and as Scripture promises and predicte they will recognize Him whom they have pierced as their Messiah. Replacement theology has this being fulfilled in 70ad. What a mockery of Scripture. The preterist view is anti god, anti-christ, anti-biblical, anti- Jewish, anti- Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Hebrew Scripture: The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. These consist of thirty-nine "books" of the Old Testament.
The New Covenant writings: Matthew to Revelation. These make up twenty-seven "books" of the New Testament.
The Abrahamic Covenant is the first of three Hebrew covenants between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and Abram's Hebrew seed through Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons.
The Mosaic Covenant: The second covenant God made with the Hebrew people made while they were still in bondage in Egypt and further built upon by God with the Hebrew people also called the children of Israel (Jacob.)
The New Covenant: The third national covenant made by God which include the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
The Bride are identified in Scripture as the Hebrew people also known as the children of Israel. The Scripture records God betrothed to Israel proper.
The Church is identified in the Old Testament as the Hebrew people who were "called out" of Egypt also called [The] Great Congregation.
The Twelve Tribes of Israel: These are the descendants of Jacob's twelve sons. They are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joshep, and Benjamin. After Solomon's death the United Kingdom of Israel divided into two kingdoms with ten tribes making the northern kingdom whose capital was Samaria; and two tribes making up the southern kingdom whose capital was Jerusalem.
The Assyrian Conquest of the ten northern kingdom tribes circa 722 BC. Assyrian conquered the northern kingdom of Israel and exiled the population back to Assyria.
The Babylonian Conquest of the two southern kingdom tribes circa 586 BC. The Babylonian conquest of the southern kingdom of Judah exiled the "Jews" back to Babylon. Babylon also captured Assyria before they took the kingdom of Judah and exiled many Israelites to Babylon.
The Diaspora: The term "diaspora" refers to a population that has been scattered across regions separate from its geographic place of origin. It is most famously associated with the Jewish Diaspora of both the northern and southern kingdoms of Israel and Judah, respectively. The Diaspora began in 722 BC with the ten northern kingdom tribes, and in 586 BC with the two southern kingdom tribes. From 722 BC to the time when Jesus was born 29-35 generations of Jews remained in exile even after Jesus' crucifixion.
The Remnant: The prophet Isaiah identifies a small number of Jews that was allowed to return to the land of Israel by the Babylonian king, Cyrus, who granted Nehemiah permission and later, Ezra, to return to Israel to rebuild their land. This occurred in 522 BC.
The Majority: As the name implies these are Jews who did not return with Hezekiah or Ezra to Israel but remained in Gentile lands of Assyria and Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between. Over one million of Jews remained in exile while several tens of thousands of Jews returned to Israel.
Samaritans: An ethnoreligious group is a community of people who share both a common ethnic/Gentile (cultural, linguistic, ancestral) background and a common religious identity. For these groups, their ethnicity and their religion are deeply intertwined and often inseparable. Many are descendant of mixed heritage Israelites of the ten northern kingdom tribes and non-Hebrew Gentiles through intermarriages, concubinage, rape, and slavery. These considered Samaria the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes as their land.
Roman destruction of Israel and the Jewish Temple: Culminating in AD 70, several battles between Israelites and the Romans occurred in the AD 60s with the Romans finally defeating Israel and destroying their Temple. Rome passed laws prohibiting Jews from living in Israel. The Jews were scattered again among Gentiles reaching into Europe.

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Hebrew Scripture: The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. These consist of thirty-nine "books" of the Old Testament.
The New Covenant writings: Matthew to Revelation. These make up twenty-seven "books" of the New Testament.
The Abrahamic Covenant is the first of three Hebrew covenants between God, Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13), and Abram's Hebrew seed through Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons.
The Mosaic Covenant: The second covenant God made with the Hebrew people made while they were still in bondage in Egypt and further built upon by God with the Hebrew people also called the children of Israel (Jacob.)
The New Covenant: The third national covenant made by God which include the House of Israel and the House of Judah.
The Bride are identified in Scripture as the Hebrew people also known as the children of Israel. The Scripture records God betrothed to Israel proper.
The Church is identified in the Old Testament as the Hebrew people who were "called out" of Egypt also called [The] Great Congregation.
The Twelve Tribes of Israel: These are the descendants of Jacob's twelve sons. They are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joshep, and Benjamin. After Solomon's death the United Kingdom of Israel divided into two kingdoms with ten tribes making the northern kingdom whose capital was Samaria; and two tribes making up the southern kingdom whose capital was Jerusalem.
The Assyrian Conquest of the ten northern kingdom tribes circa 722 BC. Assyrian conquered the northern kingdom of Israel and exiled the population back to Assyria.
The Babylonian Conquest of the two southern kingdom tribes circa 586 BC. The Babylonian conquest of the southern kingdom of Judah exiled the "Jews" back to Babylon. Babylon also captured Assyria before they took the kingdom of Judah and exiled many Israelites to Babylon.
The Diaspora: The term "diaspora" refers to a population that has been scattered across regions separate from its geographic place of origin. It is most famously associated with the Jewish Diaspora of both the northern and southern kingdoms of Israel and Judah, respectively. The Diaspora began in 722 BC with the ten northern kingdom tribes, and in 586 BC with the two southern kingdom tribes. From 722 BC to the time when Jesus was born 29-35 generations of Jews remained in exile even after Jesus' crucifixion.
The Remnant: The prophet Isaiah identifies a small number of Jews that was allowed to return to the land of Israel by the Babylonian king, Cyrus, who granted Nehemiah permission and later, Ezra, to return to Israel to rebuild their land. This occurred in 522 BC.
The Majority: As the name implies these are Jews who did not return with Hezekiah or Ezra to Israel but remained in Gentile lands of Assyria and Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between. Over one million of Jews remained in exile while several tens of thousands of Jews returned to Israel.
Samaritans: An ethnoreligious group is a community of people who share both a common ethnic/Gentile (cultural, linguistic, ancestral) background and a common religious identity. For these groups, their ethnicity and their religion are deeply intertwined and often inseparable. Many are descendant of mixed heritage Israelites of the ten northern kingdom tribes and non-Hebrew Gentiles through intermarriages, concubinage, rape, and slavery. These considered Samaria the capital of the ten northern kingdom tribes as their land.
Roman destruction of Israel and the Jewish Temple: Culminating in AD 70, several battles between Israelites and the Romans occurred in the AD 60s with the Romans finally defeating Israel and destroying their Temple. Rome passed laws prohibiting Jews from living in Israel. The Jews were scattered again among Gentiles reaching into Europe.

Okay, perhaps I am missing something here.

All of this is very interesting and concisely listed, but I am not clear on how they fit in with the subject of the OP? Namely antisemitism? and Jesus' Jewish bloodline!

I need to speak only of myself was grafted in only because of Romans 11:11 tells us 1:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

You see. very few people ever stop to consider what that really means when it is so obvious we ( again me) truly came quite close to missing that. At least at that time.

But thanks for your contribution, for I am all about history, and this is a lot right here.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Okay, perhaps I am missing something here.

All of this is very interesting and concisely listed, but I am not clear on how they fit in with the subject of the OP? Namely antisemitism? and Jesus' Jewish bloodline!

I need to speak only of myself was grafted in only because of Romans 11:11 tells us 1:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

You see. very few people ever stop to consider what that really means when it is so obvious we ( again me) truly came quite close to missing that. At least at that time.

But thanks for your contribution, for I am all about history, and this is a lot right here.

Are you Hebrew? I don't think so.
Jeremiah identifies Olive tree as Israel. There is nothing in Scripture that says Olive tree are Gentiles.
Those grafted back in are disobedient Hebrews. And now that Jesus atoned for the sins of Israel and Jeremiah states in his New Covenant prophecy that Israel is forgiven by God (at the cross of Christ) and God remembers their sin NO MORE then those disobedient have been forgiven and this results in their being grafted back into the Olive tree.

All the New Covenant is, is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. It is through the Mosaic Covenant that Christ died to atone finally and eternally the sins of God's covenant people.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Are you Hebrew? I don't think so.

Alas, I am just a wanna be. I went through 3 different DNA tests hoping to find a trace. Why, Because Jesus was Jewish.

Jeremiah identifies Olive tree as Israel. There is nothing in Scripture that says Olive tree are Gentiles.
Those grafted back in are disobedient Hebrews. And now that Jesus atoned for the sins of Israel and Jeremiah states in his New Covenant prophecy that Israel is forgiven by God (at the cross of Christ) and God remembers their sin NO MORE then those disobedient have been forgiven and this results in their being grafted back into the Olive tree.

And obviously you have explained why I feel that way.

All the New Covenant is, is the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ. It is through the Mosaic Covenant that Christ died to atone finally and eternally the sins of God's covenant people.

You also have done a magnificent job of adding to the reasons that not just I but others who have a real problem with Paul.

You say...
There is nothing in Scripture that says Olive tree are Gentiles.
Those grafted back in are disobedient Hebrews.

Paul says... in Romans 11: 17-24

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

(Obviously those in verses 21 and 22 are not those "disobedient Hebrews" so if they are not Gentiles... WHO ARE THEY.
As usual Paul is not so clear on things as you are)

24;For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Again, these are not Gentiles being described as being grafted into the olive tree in Romans 11:17-24, where it was assumed that Paul uses the metaphor of an olive tree to illustrate how Gentiles have been included in God's blessings alongside Israel.

If they were not Gentiles, but verses 21 and 22 indicate some were not the disobedient Jews then maybe Samaritans. .... Yep, that must be it.

I have always heard these passages emphasizes that while some branches of Israel were broken off due to unbelief, Gentiles, represented as wild olive shoots, have been grafted in to share in the rich nourishment from the root of the olive tree.
Yet you explained it not so.

Boy, when I came here I had no idea the new thoughts I would be taught and the "corrections" on the Holy Bible I would learn of.

Thank you

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I am not clear on what you two mean about antisemitism and how it fits here.
There is a timeline prophecy for Gods people (70 weeks). Because the time was not fulfilled, the gospel was given to the Jews, bbut when Stephen was stoned , shortly after that, Saul was converted and preached to the Gentiles.Acts 13:46 Also, God had originally planned that the Jewish nation would be a light to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 42:6
"I will give you as a covenant to the people, as a light to the Gentiles."

Isaiah 49:6
"I will also make You a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth." I dont think the Gospel preached to the Gentiles has anything to do with antisemitism. Many of the Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah. Is the rejection of Christ what you are talking about?

Also what do you make of the parable in Matt 21:33-43? And what did Jesus mean when he said "Your house is left unto you desolate"Matt 23:38. These are not antisemitic. These are general statements. Many of the Jews were converted as were Gentiles.
I am just wondering what you are speaking of.

does this mean God is done with Israel

And what was supposed to happen at the end of the 7th week?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Alas, I am just a wanna be. I went through 3 different DNA tests hoping to find a trace. Why, Because Jesus was Jewish.

There is no Jesus DNA out there coursing through anyone's veins. Even if you were to match with His half-brother's or half-sister's you still cannot connect with His as Joseph was not His father.

And obviously you have explained why I feel that way.
You also have done a magnificent job of adding to the reasons that not just I but others who have a real problem with Paul.
You say...
There is nothing in Scripture that says Olive tree are Gentiles.
Those grafted back in are disobedient Hebrews.

Paul says... in Romans 11: 17-24

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

(Obviously those in verses 21 and 22 are not those "disobedient Hebrews" so if they are not Gentiles... WHO ARE THEY.
As usual Paul is not so clear on things as you are)

24;For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Again, these are not Gentiles being described as being grafted into the olive tree in Romans 11:17-24, where it was assumed that Paul uses the metaphor of an olive tree to illustrate how Gentiles have been included in God's blessings alongside Israel.

If they were not Gentiles, but verses 21 and 22 indicate some were not the disobedient Jews then maybe Samaritans.View attachment 2147 .... Yep, that must be it.

I have always heard these passages emphasizes that while some branches of Israel were broken off due to unbelief, Gentiles, represented as wild olive shoots, have been grafted in to share in the rich nourishment from the root of the olive tree.
Yet you explained it not so.

Boy, when I came here I had no idea the new thoughts I would be taught and the "corrections" on the Holy Bible I would learn of.

Thank you

Again, there is NOTHING in Scripture that says non-Hebrew Gentiles are ever identified by God as an Olive tree. The Olive tree is representative of Israel, not any Gentiles.
And when I say there is NO SCRIPTURE I mean there is NOTHING in the Law, Psalms, or the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture - that says God ever called them an Olive tree.
What you must do is look at Saul's letters and the things he says/writes considering the Hebrew Scripture, which are the Scripture authorized by God. The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are scripture with a lower-case "s", not having the same authority as the Hebrew Scripture consisting of the Law (Pentateuch), the Psalms, and the Prophets - all 39 "books" of the Hebrew Bible. So, if there is nothing in the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets that records God calling or identifying non-Hebrew Gentiles as an Olive tree, then to interpret Saul's words in Romans as your evidence does not prove your point. The New Covenant writings are interpreted and understood with the Hebrew Scripture as your guide. If you come out with an interpretation or understanding that cannot be proved in the Old Testament Hebrew Scripture, then your interpretation and understanding is flawed, and you are adding to the Bible things not contained in the Hebrew Scripture. It's called type and shadow.

The New Covenant writings are only discussion and explanation by the letter writers Saul, John, Peter, James, John, Luke, Mark, and Jude that seeks to understand and explain the things that were taking place in Israel by the Holy Spirit when His Ministry began upon and among the Hebrew people, God';s Chosen and Elect people, a people He has covenant with. Here is the original reference from the prophet Jeremiah:

16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
Jeremiah 11:16–17.

Who is God calling "a green Olive tree"?
He is speaking of Judah:

9 And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.
11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.
Jeremiah 11:9–11.

The evil God sent to both the House of Israel and the House of Judah was their destruction, captivity, and Exile by both Assyria and Babylon, respectively.

And the covenant they have broken doesn't matter because God established a New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah later on through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, whom God sacrificed to and for the children of Israel of both Houses and both kingdoms, merging the two into one (again.)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 31:31–33.

To understand what Saul wrote in Romans about the Olive tree the answer is found with Jeremiah's reference in the passage above. In both places - Jeremiah 11 and 31 there is NO MENTION of non-Hebrew Gentiles anywhere in the narrative and to arbitrarily decide you're going to ADD non-Hebrew Gentiles into the discussion let alone Saul's words is bad hermeneutics and eisegesis interpretation that has NO BIBLICAL BASIS OR FOUNDATION.
You are ADDING to Scripture things that are NOT THERE. But if you want to add to the Word of God there is a curse:

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

and

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:17–19.

If you want to add to God's Word that's on you, but you have no right to pass off your false understanding upon anyone else for then you will be accountable to them in their error in following you.
God hates liars.
So do I.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

I wanted to immediately respond how right he is, and I for one could start by naming names.

I'm sure you are thinking of me, yet, I'm far from being anti-Semite, even though I know that God has no promises of future spiritual blessings for Abraham's natural children outside of Jesus Christ, outside of this present dispensation period..... that will end at 2nd coming of Jesus Christ ~ for the natural seed of Abraham, "not one".

I love the Jewish people, since many of "our" spiritual fathers came from them, whom we love in the truth as it is in Jesus Christ. But, that being said, I dare not offer them any spiritual blessings that the word of God does not teach/support. The Gentiles churches are not inferior to them in the least, but above them as the true apple of God's eyes. Regardless what @jeremiah1five said otherwise, he's corrupting God's truth to support men who rejects Jesus Christ, while all along thinking they are God's special people because of the blood that flows through their veins, which nothing could be farer from the truth.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

I'm sure you are thinking of me, yet, I'm far from being anti-Semite, even though I know that God has no promises of future spiritual blessings for Abraham's natural children outside of Jesus Christ, outside of this present dispensation period..... that will end at 2nd coming of Jesus Christ ~ for the natural seed of Abraham, "not one".

I love the Jewish people, since many of "our" spiritual fathers came from them, whom we love in the truth as it is in Jesus Christ. But, that being said, I dare not offer them any spiritual blessings that the word of God does not teach/support. The Gentiles churches are not inferior to them in the least, but above them as the true apple of God's eyes. Regardless what @jeremiah1five said otherwise, he's corrupting God's truth to support men who rejects Jesus Christ, while all along thinking they are God's special people because of the blood that flows through their veins, which nothing could be farer from the truth.

What I wrote in the OP I firmly believe. I said nothing that cannot be proven by scriptures.

As far as @jeremiah1five goes, he clearly has a comprehension problem not understanding the scriptures.

Plain as the nose on ones face this is crystal clear. But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, Rom 11:11

And.... above in reply 11... Romans 11: 17-24 tells us of that grafting, which needs not be repeated here.

Thank you, Mr. Baker, for your opinion.

 

[FreeInChrist]

There is no Jesus DNA out there coursing through anyone's veins. Even if you were to match with His half-brother's or half-sister's you still cannot connect with His as Joseph was not His father.

However... did you know that through your DNA testings that
Certain genes, however, are transmitted exclusively from one parent to the offspring. To understand this one-sided genetic inheritance and, more specifically, maternal inheritance, let’s take a quick dive into the thrilling world of chromosomes.

Human cells contain chromosomes, the structures that hold our unique genetic information. Each cell has 23 unique chromosomes, responsible for different functions and different genetically inherited traits.

These chromosomes can be split into two categories:

• Autosomal – Most humans inherit 22 pairs of matching chromosomes, one from each parent. These pairs code for the same traits, and it’s the combination of these genes from both mom and dad that determine what features a child exhibits.
• Sex-linked –The genes contained within the 23rd pair of chromosomes are expressed as sex-linked traits. Since X and Y chromosome pairings determine a child’s gender, they can also help illuminate which traits came from mom versus dad.

Here’s how that breaks down by gender:

• Girls receive an X-chromosome from each parent, therefore their X-linked traits will be partially inherited from dad, too.
• Boys , on the other hand, only receive a Y chromosome from their father and an X chromosome from their mother. That means all of your son’s X-linked genes and traits will come straight from mom.

Since boys get their only X chromosome and those affiliated traits from mom, it’s easier to identify which of their sex-linked traits come from Mom and which come from Dad. Since girls have two X-chromosomes, it’s not entirely possible to know which sex-linked traits come from mom versus dad without analyzing the family’s genetic code.

This is why 23 and me wanted a DNA sample from my mother and my dad. But dad's could not be had as he had died.

So whether I could have been related to Jesus, it could have been possible to be related to Mary.

I was able, when I was into all of that genealogy stuff to trace my paternal grandmothers family back into BC. But alas, not close to the mideast but stuck in the stupid UK countries and Scandanavian area.

Again, there is NOTHING in Scripture that says non-Hebrew Gentiles are ever identified by God as an Olive tree. The Olive tree is representative of Israel, not any Gentiles.

And again... what does

Romans 11: 17-24... mean.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, (Who is the wild olive?)

18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” (Who is the I referred to?)

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; (They are the ones you claim are disobedient Hebrews)

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. (The disobedient Hebrews were the natural branches that broke off)

22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. (Who would be cut off? Not the Hebrews that are already accounted for)
(Because)
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ( Here God will graft them in again with who????? Come on... say it... the Gentiles like me.)

Now read carefully.
24;For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
This means: This verse encourages us to see that God has not forsaken the Jewish people, despite their initial rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. Instead, there is hope and a profound opportunity for restoration. Just as Gentiles receive God’s grace and love, so too can the Jewish people be re-infused into this covenant.

But he also has not forgotten the others ... the Gentiles ... that also were grafted in.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@FreeInChrist

I'm sure you are thinking of me, yet, I'm far from being anti-Semite, even though I know that God has no promises of future spiritual blessings for Abraham's natural children outside of Jesus Christ, outside of this present dispensation period..... that will end at 2nd coming of Jesus Christ ~ for the natural seed of Abraham, "not one".

I love the Jewish people, since many of "our" spiritual fathers came from them, whom we love in the truth as it is in Jesus Christ. But, that being said, I dare not offer them any spiritual blessings that the word of God does not teach/support. The Gentiles churches are not inferior to them in the least, but above them as the true apple of God's eyes. Regardless what @jeremiah1five said otherwise, he's corrupting God's truth to support men who rejects Jesus Christ, while all along thinking they are God's special people because of the blood that flows through their veins, which nothing could be farer from the truth.

I know God keeps His promises. And the promises He made to individuals who are in covenant with Him will all be fulfilled "in His time."

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (see Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
26 A new heart also will I give you, and fa new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Eze 36:21–28.

The above prophecy by Ezekiel is given to Israel. They are the children of Jacob, who are the children of Isaac, who are the children of Abraham. By refusing to give to Israel what God promised them and to instead seek to steal Israel's inheritance through misapplication and misinterpretation and misunderstanding God's eternal Word is a form of not only antisemitism but is also antichrist and antigod.

Ezekiel is describing the Presence of God's own Spirit upon the Hebrew people and verse 22 declares to whom these promises are given.
On the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest God began to fulfill His promise by giving His Spirit to the children of Israel and the Church Jesus promised to build began to take shape on that Feast day. Three thousand Jews were born again that day and Luke shares in Acts 2:47 that Christ added to His Church daily such as should be saved, and this includes hundreds and thousands of Jews being born again every day after that.

God never made covenant with any non-Hebrew Gentiles, and this alone should end the discussion, but Gentiles through deception twisted God's Word and while God returns to fulfill His promises to Israel according to Scripture there will come a day in which ALL non-Hebrew Gentiles - especially those who today claim Israel's Messiah and King, will be so jealous of Israel that they will seek her destruction. But God will have the last word. I expect that when the two witnesses of Revelation appear that they will set the world straight as to who is truly God's anointed people, and this will not sit well in the hearts of Gentiles and they will join antichrist to try and destroy God's Chosen people. It says in Revelation 19 that "His vesture [was] dipped in blood" which is the result of Christ's vesture being stained by the blood of the Gentiles He vanquishes with His bear hands when He returns. Then, when the Jews occupy the Land God promised Abraham and his seed, Gentiles will make one final push in league with Gog and Magog and fire from heaven will consume them all.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Revelation 20:7–9.

One of the last promises God will fulfill is as follows:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:14.

The children of Israel were the only people under the Law and at the end God will make them willing. New Jerusalem was given to Israel. It is the kingdom of heaven they have been waiting for at least since Acts 1:6-8.
So, unless you want to call God a liar, He still has many promises to fulfill. Promises He made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's why He's called the God of Abraham.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What I wrote in the OP I firmly believe. I said nothing that cannot be proven by scriptures.

As far as @jeremiah1five goes, he clearly has a comprehension problem not understanding the scriptures.

Plain as the nose on ones face this is crystal clear. But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, Rom 11:11

And.... above in reply 11... Romans 11: 17-24 tells us of that grafting, which needs not be repeated here.

Thank you, Mr. Baker, for your opinion.

You add to the Bible things not there.
Show me Scripture in Genesis 12, 15, or 17 that records God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Then show me Scripture from Joel's prophecy of God promising His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
And when you find such a Scripture of God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles tell me that Gentile's name.

 

[jeremiah1five]

However... did you know that through your DNA testings that
Certain genes, however, are transmitted exclusively from one parent to the offspring. To understand this one-sided genetic inheritance and, more specifically, maternal inheritance, let’s take a quick dive into the thrilling world of chromosomes.

Human cells contain chromosomes, the structures that hold our unique genetic information. Each cell has 23 unique chromosomes, responsible for different functions and different genetically inherited traits.

These chromosomes can be split into two categories:

• Autosomal – Most humans inherit 22 pairs of matching chromosomes, one from each parent. These pairs code for the same traits, and it’s the combination of these genes from both mom and dad that determine what features a child exhibits.
• Sex-linked –The genes contained within the 23rd pair of chromosomes are expressed as sex-linked traits. Since X and Y chromosome pairings determine a child’s gender, they can also help illuminate which traits came from mom versus dad.

Here’s how that breaks down by gender:

• Girls receive an X-chromosome from each parent, therefore their X-linked traits will be partially inherited from dad, too.
• Boys , on the other hand, only receive a Y chromosome from their father and an X chromosome from their mother. That means all of your son’s X-linked genes and traits will come straight from mom.

Since boys get their only X chromosome and those affiliated traits from mom, it’s easier to identify which of their sex-linked traits come from Mom and which come from Dad. Since girls have two X-chromosomes, it’s not entirely possible to know which sex-linked traits come from mom versus dad without analyzing the family’s genetic code.

This is why 23 and me wanted a DNA sample from my mother and my dad. But dad's could not be had as he had died.

So whether I could have been related to Jesus, it could have been possible to be related to Mary.

I was able, when I was into all of that genealogy stuff to trace my paternal grandmothers family back into BC. But alas, not close to the mideast but stuck in the stupid UK countries and Scandanavian area.

And again... what does

Romans 11: 17-24... mean.

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, (Who is the wild olive?)

18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” (Who is the I referred to?)

20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; (They are the ones you claim are disobedient Hebrews)

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. (The disobedient Hebrews were the natural branches that broke off)

22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. (Who would be cut off? Not the Hebrews that are already accounted for)
(Because)
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ( Here God will graft them in again with who????? Come on... say it... the Gentiles like me.)

Now read carefully.
24;For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
This means: This verse encourages us to see that God has not forsaken the Jewish people, despite their initial rejection of Jesus as the Messiah. Instead, there is hope and a profound opportunity for restoration. Just as Gentiles receive God’s grace and love, so too can the Jewish people be re-infused into this covenant.

But he also has not forgotten the others ... the Gentiles ... that also were grafted in.

Again, show me in the Old Testament God calling non-Hebrew Gentiles an Olive tree.
If you can't prove your position through Scripture, then it's not in the Bible and all you're left with is false teaching.

God said that every man will die for their own sin. There was only several thousand in Jerusalem that may have cried out for Jesus' crucifixion but thank God salvation is of the Lord and the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and the House of Judah. There were over two million Jews living in Gentile lands and knew nothing about what took place in Jerusalem. According to the dictates of the New Covenant Israel doesn't have to do anything in order to be saved. There's nothing required of the Hebrew people in this covenant. Nor are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles identified in the New Covenant. It is between the God of Abraham and the children of Israel ONLY.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity:
Every man that eateth the sour grape,
His teeth shall be set on edge.
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:30–34.

Now, if you can show me in the Old Testament in Jeremiah 31:31-34 God making this promise to non-Hebrew Gentiles then you have a an argument.
If you can't prove a covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles where the New Covenant is concerned, then all you have is lies.
And God hates liars.
But you don't care. You're going to believe what you want to believe even if it is contrary to Scripture.
This, true believers do not do.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You add to the Bible things not there.
Show me Scripture in Genesis 12, 15, or 17 that records God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
Then show me Scripture from Joel's prophecy of God promising His Spirit to non-Hebrew Gentiles.
And when you find such a Scripture of God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles tell me that Gentile's name.

Gen 12 - in you shall all the families of the earth be blessed.



Gentiles are the focus of the salvic portion of the covenant. God through Abrahams seed (Christ) will be a blessing to the world