The value of the Law in Messianic Judaism

[praise_yeshua]

The value of the law of Moses in Messianic Judaism is identical to the value placed upon the law in Judaism. There is no meaningful difference otherwise.

Messianic Judaism believes the law of Moses is the standard by which men should live. So do those who reject Messiah. Those in historical/modern Judaism.

What is the value they find in the law? This is going to be offensive but it is the Truth. I've said this many times around here and throughout the years. The Truth offends more than a lie every does to a human being. The Truth cuts. The Truth divides. The Truth has it's work in our very souls/spirits.

The value men find in the law of Moses is convenience and fear.

God called Israel to himself. Yet, they refused.

Exodus 19:13 When the trumpet sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.”

Exo 19:17 Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off,

They feared God and ask another "man" to put forth all the effort needed to know God FOR them...... God demanded intimacy and the people withdrew from God's invitation.

Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

What happened then is what still happens today. Men/women hire "pastors" to lead them. They pay them to do all the work needed to know God for them.

Do you think God enjoys such a relationship with man? We know this is not how God desires/demands relationships from man.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

God has never desired for one man to lead another.....

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

 

[Soyeong]

The value of the law of Moses in Messianic Judaism is identical to the value placed upon the law in Judaism. There is no meaningful difference otherwise.

Messianic Judaism believes the law of Moses is the standard by which men should live. So do those who reject Messiah. Those in historical/modern Judaism.

What is the value they find in the law? This is going to be offensive but it is the Truth. I've said this many times around here and throughout the years. The Truth offends more than a lie every does to a human being. The Truth cuts. The Truth divides. The Truth has it's work in our very souls/spirits.

The value men find in the law of Moses is convenience and fear.

God called Israel to himself. Yet, they refused.

Exodus 19:13 When the trumpet sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.”

Exo 19:17 Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off,

They feared God and ask another "man" to put forth all the effort needed to know God FOR them...... God demanded intimacy and the people withdrew from God's invitation.

Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

What happened then is what still happens today. Men/women hire "pastors" to lead them. They pay them to do all the work needed to know God for them.

Do you think God enjoys such a relationship with man? We know this is not how God desires/demands relationships from man.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

God has never desired for one man to lead another.....

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

It's amazing how the Mosaic Law swings from supposedly being a burden no one can bear to being a convince. In Exodus 19-20, it says nothing about asking another man to put forth all the effort needed to know God for them, rather in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's amazing how the Mosaic Law swings from supposedly being a burden no one can bear to being a convince.

The inability to keep the law should be convincing to you. You're living outside of reality of you think otherwise.

In Exodus 19-20, it says nothing about asking another man to put forth all the effort needed to know God for them, rather in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him.

Did God ask the people to draw near to Him?

It is interesting how you witness the fact that this event established the "law of God" as the "Mosaic law" and you don't even realize it.

When Moses rejected God's offer to to make of Moses a great nation by killing everyone of them.... He became responsible for them...... Hence. "Mosaic law".

God's law was irrevocably broken......

 

[koberstein]

The value of the law of Moses in Messianic Judaism is identical to the value placed upon the law in Judaism. There is no meaningful difference otherwise.

Messianic Judaism believes the law of Moses is the standard by which men should live. So do those who reject Messiah. Those in historical/modern Judaism.

What is the value they find in the law? This is going to be offensive but it is the Truth. I've said this many times around here and throughout the years. The Truth offends more than a lie every does to a human being. The Truth cuts. The Truth divides. The Truth has it's work in our very souls/spirits.

The value men find in the law of Moses is convenience and fear.

God called Israel to himself. Yet, they refused.

Exodus 19:13 When the trumpet sounds a long blast, they shall come up to the mountain.”

Exo 19:17 Then Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they took their stand at the foot of the mountain.

Exo 20:18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid and trembled, and they stood far off
Exo 20:19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.”
Exo 20:20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.”
Exo 20:21 The people stood far off,

They feared God and ask another "man" to put forth all the effort needed to know God FOR them...... God demanded intimacy and the people withdrew from God's invitation.

Exo 19:8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.” And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

What happened then is what still happens today. Men/women hire "pastors" to lead them. They pay them to do all the work needed to know God for them.

Do you think God enjoys such a relationship with man? We know this is not how God desires/demands relationships from man.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

God has never desired for one man to lead another.....

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

Since you are not an authority on Messianic Judaism, you still continue to spread unfounded and baseless lies about Messianic Jews.. Its people like you that cause a rift between the Christian community and the Messianic community. Whether you believe it or not, we are all one in
Yeshua. You are clueless as to what Messianic Judaism is or what they believe, so stop spreading leaglistic lies to build yourself up at our expense.

Since discussions of whether Messianic Jews should observe the Torah generate more heat than light when there is disagreement over what is
meant by the "Torah". Messianic Jews should keep the Orthodox Jewish Law. This was the view of certain sects the Church regarded as heretical,
for example, the second century Ebionites, one can find New Testament support for the compulsory Law-keeping.

At Mattityahu [Matthew] 5:17-20 Yeshua says He did not come to abolish the Torah, and that anyone who disobeys its least commands and teaches others to do so will be counted LEAST in the Kingdom of heaven. When castigating the religious establishment for majoring in minors
He does not denigrate any part of the Torah "Woe to you hypocritical Torah-teachers [scribes] and P'rushim [Pharisees]! You pay your tithes
of mint, dill and cumin; but you have neglected the weightier matters of the Torah---justice, mercy, and trust. These are the things you should
have attended to---without neglecting the others! Without taking away from Yeshua's emphasis on justice, mercy, and trust, we note that He
adds the phrase, "without neglecting the others," in order to affirm that the less weighty commandments are still in force.
At Mattityahu 23:2-3 he says, "The Torah-teachers and the P'rushim sit in the seat of Moses," meaning that they have authority to determine
how to apply the Law in specific instances. "So," he continues, "whatever they tell you, take care to do it." At Romans 7:12 Sha'ul [Paul] calls
the Torah "holy, just and good"
I am unaware of any modern movement of Jewish believers in Yeshua which takes the position that Messianic Jews must keep the Orthodox Jewish Law or else lose their salvation. It is desirable that Messianic Jews observe the Orthodox Jewish Law but not essential. Why Desirable?
Two Reasons:
First, the Law (at least its biblical portions) was given by God to the Jewish people and never abrogated; it is God's guide to godly behavior
and worthy of being followed. We are Jews and we will follow it.

Secondly, those who know Jewish history cannot be unaware that the Law has kept the Jewish people more than the Jewish people have
kept the Law. It is God's will that the Jewish be preserved---we can know this not only from the Jews' astounding history of survival despite
two thousand years of dispersion and persecution, but also from both the tanakh (e.g. Isaiah 49:6) and the New Testament (Romans 11)
Therefore Messianic Jews should support one of the chief means God has used to preserve us.

But then, why, if it so "desirable," is the Law "not essential"? Because salvation, the proponents of this position would answer, is based on
trust alone, on faith, on repentance from sin and turning to God through his Messiah Yeshua. The behavior to God can be suggested in a
single code, but if it is interpreted by the letter and not by the Holy Spirit, it will bring death not life. The only "essential" is to love God and
one's neighbor---with the proviso that love implies acts not just feelings.

Messianic Jews may keep the Jewish Law if they wish, or they may not. Whether Messianic Jews obey the Law is a matter of individual conscience,
neither required or forbidden. The New Testament, the Church and Christianity have nothing to say on the subject one way or another and should remain neutral. The guiding principles for the Church in such adiaphora (matters of indifference) are set forth in Romans 14 and
1 Corinthians 8. The single Proviso that proponents of this position might want to make explicit is that obedience to the Jewish Law does not
count with God for salvation. This stance is taken by many Christian denominations and by many Messianic Jews.

Shabbat Shalom