The Bride and The Body

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https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/

when-are-believers-in-christ.1919/page-4#post-98266 (reply #65)

Hello @civic,
Forgive me for bringing your entry reply#65 (above) from the thread it was in, and bringing it here, I did not want to reply in the thread for it would have derailed it from it's intended subject.

You quoted from Ephesians 5, 22-33. the practical section of the epistle, where instruction relating to the relationship of husband and wife is given. and Paul uses the union of the Church which is the Body of Christ, with it's Head, the Lord Jesus Christ, alongside for comparison: The physical with it's antitype:-

"Wives submit ... ... .. as the church unto Christ."
"Husbands love ... ... as Christ the Church."

"... a man ... shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh'. , as,
' ... we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.' (Eph 5:30)
This union is indeed a great mystery.

The Church in Ephesians is referred to as the 'the Body of Christ' and 'The New Man'. The bridal relationship to Christ belongs to another calling.
See, https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Bride and the Body.PDF

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

My response in that thread was to show the harmony in the comparison of the bride, bridegroom , marriage , Christ and the church which parallels our human marriage of husband / wife reflected in Christs relationship to His bride , the church.

 

[Complete]

My response in that thread was to show the harmony in the comparison of the bride, bridegroom , marriage , Christ and the church which parallels our human marriage of husband / wife reflected in Christs relationship to His bride , the church.

Hello @civic,

I see. So you were not saying that the Church which is the Body of Christ, which is the subject of Ephesians, is the Bride of Christ, as some do? Though that term is never used in Scripture.

Thank you for responding.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[civic]

Hello @civic,

I see. So you were not saying that the Church which is the Body of Christ, which is the subject of Ephesians, is the Bride of Christ, as some do? Though that term is never used in Scripture.

Thank you for responding.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Although it doesn’t say it verbatim it’s implied IMHO.

 

[Complete]

'And there came unto me one of the seven angels
which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues,
and talked with me, saying,
"Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife."
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,
and shewed me that great city,
the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,'
(Rev 21:9-10)

'For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace,
and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest,
until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness,
and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory:
and thou shalt be called by a new name,
which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD,
and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken;
neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate:
but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah:
for the LORD delighteth in thee,
and thy land shall be married.
For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee:
and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride,
so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem,
which shall never hold their peace day nor night:
ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,'
(Isa 62:1-6)

 

[TomL]

Although it doesn’t say it verbatim it’s implied IMHO.

Well perhaps a case may be made for

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

[Complete]

Although it doesn’t say it verbatim it’s implied IMHO.

Well perhaps a case may be made for

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

@civic
@TomL

Hello both,

With respect, I do not believe that the Lord mixes His metaphors. The company which is, 'The Body of Christ', did not come into existence as a joint body, until after the final departure of Israel as a nation, as in the land, so then in the diaspora, after the forty years of probation, covered by the narrative of the book of Acts. At Acts 28 and the third repetition, (at yet another time of rejection), of Isaiah 6:9-10, this time referred to by Paul instead of the Lord Jesus Christ (e.g., Isaiah 43:8, Isaiah 4:18-20; Matthew 13:14-15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10; John 12:40; Romans 11:8).

Following this: Paul, as, 'The Lord's Prisoner,' was given the Divine revelation concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, and made it known by word of mouth, and through the epistles written during that time, of Eph., Phil, Col. 1 & 2 Tim., Titus and Phile. This knowledge was hid in God until the moment of it's revelation (Eph. 3:9), so to look at anything written prior to that, in either Old or New Testaments is of no avail. You will find the human body used by way of illustration, but it will not refer to The Church which is Christ's Body.

The Church which is His Body, of Which Christ is The Head, is by it's very comparison with the term, 'The Bride', incompatible. For example the Bride is obviously female, whereas the Body of Christ is very much male. The places where the hope of both are realised in resurrection are also different in location: Either 'Far above all heavens', in 'Heavenly places' (in Christ Jesus), in regard to the Church which is the Body of Christ , or in 'The New Jerusalem', re. the Bride. This is sufficient to consider, yet more comparisons could be made.

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Bride%20and%20the%20Body.PDF

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you
as a chaste virgin
to Christ.'
(2 Cor. 11:2)

Hello there, @civic, @TomL.

Paul coveted the believers at Corinth for Christ, his motive being a 'godly jealousy' (11:2) such as God Himself had for the people of Israel in the Old Testament: This nation who were in relationship to God as of a wife to a husband. Paul felt that same jealousy, when he witnessed his 'flock' going after the false teaching of his opponents.

If the nation of Israel was looked upon as the faithless Wife of Jehovah, the Bride represents the faithful remnant that remained true to the Lord all through; such, from faithful Abraham onwards (Heb. 11), looked forward by faith to the better country linked with the heavenly Jerusalem whose destiny is in the new earth (Rev. 3:12; 21:2,10) and this city is, 'the Bride of the Lamb' (Rev. 21:2,9). This sphere would include the faithful and those that went on to perfection (Heb. 6:1) in the Acts period, and those who are tested and found faithful on the future Day of the Lord, and it was Paul's aim that those to whom he ministered, including the believers at Corinth, should be included in this favoured company. It is important to grasp that the heavenly city is a reward for overcomers in Israel and those Gentiles linked with Israel. There is therefore, no need to confuse this with the later revelation of the 'joint-Body' of Christ, yet to be blessed with Christ in the heavenlies, 'far above all heavens'.​

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

(ref: 'The Early and Pastoral Epistles of Paul of Paul' by Stuart Allen')

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Early%20and%20Pastoral%20Epistles%20of%20Paul,%20The.pdf

 

[TomL]

@civic
@TomL

Hello both,

With respect, I do not believe that the Lord mixes His metaphors. The company which is, 'The Body of Christ', did not come into existence as a joint body, until after the final departure of Israel as a nation, as in the land, so then in the diaspora, after the forty years of probation, covered by the narrative of the book of Acts. At Acts 28 and the third repetition, (at yet another time of rejection), of Isaiah 6:9-10, this time referred to by Paul instead of the Lord Jesus Christ (e.g., Isaiah 43:8, Isaiah 4:18-20; Matthew 13:14-15; Mark 4:12; Luke 8:10; John 12:40; Romans 11:8).

Following this: Paul, as, 'The Lord's Prisoner,' was given the Divine revelation concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, and made it known by word of mouth, and through the epistles written during that time, of Eph., Phil, Col. 1 & 2 Tim., Titus and Phile. This knowledge was hid in God until the moment of it's revelation (Eph. 3:9), so to look at anything written prior to that, in either Old or New Testaments is of no avail. You will find the human body used by way of illustration, but it will not refer to The Church which is Christ's Body.

The Church which is His Body, of Which Christ is The Head, is by it's very comparison with the term, 'The Bride', incompatible. For example the Bride is obviously female, whereas the Body of Christ is very much male. The places where the hope of both are realised in resurrection are also different in location: Either 'Far above all heavens', in 'Heavenly places' (in Christ Jesus), in regard to the Church which is the Body of Christ , or in 'The New Jerusalem', re. the Bride. This is sufficient to consider, yet more comparisons could be made.

https://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Bride%20and%20the%20Body.PDF

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

um this was addressed to the church

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

[Complete]

'For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.'
(2Co 11:2)

Hello @TomL.

Thank you for your response, Tom.

Those to whom Paul spoke, either comprised the natural branches or had been grafted into, Israel's Olive Tree. So they had the potential to share the glorious hope of those who would comprise 'The Bride', like those of Hebrews 11: but that necessitated faithfulness in life and service; and Paul was fearful that they would take heed to the false prophets who preached a counterfeit gospel; Taking them from the simplicity which is in Christ Jesus their Lord, and ensnaring them by those practices that would bring them under the law.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TomL]

'For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.'
(2Co 11:2)

Hello @TomL.

Thank you for your response, Tom.

Those to whom Paul spoke, either comprised the natural branches or had been grafted into, Israel's Olive Tree. So they had the potential to share the glorious hope of those who would comprise 'The Bride', like those of Hebrews 11: but that necessitated faithfulness in life and service; and Paul was fearful that they would take heed to the false prophets who preached a counterfeit gospel; Taking them from the simplicity which is in Christ Jesus their Lord, and ensnaring them by those practices that would bring them under the law.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Um they were the body of Christ-the church

1 Corinthians 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

[Complete]

Um they were the body of Christ-the church

1 Corinthians 1:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

'Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee
keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest,
that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me;
of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.'
(2 Tim. 1:13-15)

Thank you, @TomL,

At the time of writing 1 & 2 Corinthians the Church which is Christ's Body had not been revealed, it was still, 'Hid in God' (Eph. 3:9)'. When made known the potential for becoming part of it was there, but unfortunately we are told in Paul's last letter, written to Timothy, that all in Asia had turned away from him, and presumably the message he was now making known (see Eph. Phil, Col. 1 & 2 Tim. Titus and Phile.) . Which we are also told was 'unseachable' (Eph. 3:8): not being the subject of either the Old Testament or of his own epistles until his imprisonment after the forty year Acts period.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,
and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ
in my flesh for His body's sake,
which is the church:
Whereof I am made a minister,
according to the dispensation of God
which is given to me for you,
to fulfil the word of God;
the mystery
which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Whom we preach,
warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom;
that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working,
which worketh in me mightily.'
(Col 1:24-29)

Praise God!

 

[civic]

um this was addressed to the church

2 Corinthians 11:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

ditto the language of a husband/wife- a bride ie the church.

 

[TomL]

ditto the language of a husband/wife- a bride ie the church.

Yep

 

[TomL]

'Hold fast the form of sound words,
which thou hast heard of me,
in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
That good thing which was committed unto thee
keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.
This thou knowest,
that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me;
of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.'
(2 Tim. 1:13-15)

Thank you, @TomL,

At the time of writing 1 & 2 Corinthians the Church which is Christ's Body had not been revealed, it was still, 'Hid in God' (Eph. 3:9)'. When made known the potential for becoming part of it was there, but unfortunately we are told in Paul's last letter, written to Timothy, that all in Asia had turned away from him, and presumably the message he was now making known (see Eph. Phil, Col. 1 & 2 Tim. Titus and Phile.) . Which we are also told was 'unseachable' (Eph. 3:8): not being the subject of either the Old Testament or of his own epistles until his imprisonment after the forty year Acts period.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Um


1 Cor 1:2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Corinthians 12:12–27 (KJV 1900) — 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

 

[Complete]

Um


1 Cor 1:2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1 Corinthians 12:12–27 (KJV 1900) — 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

'Now ye are the body of Christ,
and members in particular.'
(1Co 12:27)

Hello @TomL,

Yes, this certainly does appear to relate to the body of Christ of Ephesians and the rest of the prison epistles of Paul, I agree: but on closer inspection first of all there is no definite article in the Greek, 'Now ye are (the) body of Christ.' Paul uses the phrase, 'one body' in Romans also, 'So we, being many, are one body in Christ,' ;which is a very different thing, and shows the standing by grace of the Roman church in Christ. So with the Corinthian assembly, They were a company (body) of believers belonging to Christ (Christ's body); like all the other churches; they were not part of the 'sussoma', the joint-Body , of which Christ is the Head. Nothing is said about the Headship of Christ in these Acts epistles. If we are absolutely accurate in our reading and note just what the Apostle wrote under inspiration, not adding in our minds what was to be revealed later, we shall have no difficulty with this context, or try to identify what God has made to differ. Nor need we be concerned with the old jibe that this teaches there are two Bodies of Christ, for this would only be true if they existed at the same time. Of course this is not so, for the 'sussoma', the Joint-Body of Christ was not revealed till after Israel failed at Acts 28, thus superseding the Acts period position.

The questions asked by the Apostle (1 Cor.12:29-30) refer back to verse fourteen and its argument that the human body is not one member, but many and all essential.

The word of God tells us that the truth concerning The Church which is the Body of Christ was 'hid in God' since the world began (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:26), until Divinely revealed to Paul at the end of the Acts period. so to look at the epistles of Paul written previously and call into question the truth of the words of Ephesians 3:9 & Colossians 1:26 is, with respect, a mark of unbelief, hard as it is to acknowledge it. Though I have asked the same question too, so you are not alone in this.​

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TomL]

'Now ye are the body of Christ,
and members in particular.'
(1Co 12:27)

Hello @TomL,

Yes, this certainly does appear to relate to the body of Christ of Ephesians and the rest of the prison epistles of Paul, I agree: but on closer inspection first of all there is no definite article in the Greek, 'Now ye are (the) body of Christ.' Paul uses the phrase, 'one body' in Romans also, 'So we, being many, are one body in Christ,' ;which is a very different thing, and shows the standing by grace of the Roman church in Christ. So with the Corinthian assembly, They were a company (body) of believers belonging to Christ (Christ's body); like all the other churches; they were not part of the 'sussoma', the joint-Body , of which Christ is the Head. Nothing is said about the Headship of Christ in these Acts epistles. If we are absolutely accurate in our reading and note just what the Apostle wrote under inspiration, not adding in our minds what was to be revealed later, we shall have no difficulty with this context, or try to identify what God has made to differ. Nor need we be concerned with the old jibe that this teaches there are two Bodies of Christ, for this would only be true if they existed at the same time. Of course this is not so, for the 'sussoma', the Joint-Body of Christ was not revealed till after Israel failed at Acts 28, thus superseding the Acts period position.

The questions asked by the Apostle (1 Cor.12:29-30) refer back to verse fourteen and its argument that the human body is not one member, but many and all essential.

The word of God tells us that the truth concerning The Church which is the Body of Christ was 'hid in God' since the world began (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:26), until Divinely revealed to Paul at the end of the Acts period. so to look at the epistles of Paul written previously and call into question the truth of the words of Ephesians 3:9 & Colossians 1:26 is, with respect, a mark of unbelief, hard as it is to acknowledge it. Though I have asked the same question too, so you are not alone in this.​

Thank you
In Christ Jesus

The verse reads

7 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

PS there is only one body of Christ