Salvation, missing the point.

Gideon300

Member
The word "savation" has come to mean going to heaven when you die and being forgiven. Some Christians promote the worthy idea that Christians should also live a life free from sin. While these concepts are true, they are also extremely limited. Salvation is vastly more than keeping your nose clean while you wait for the last trumpet.

We need to know what we are saved from and what we are saved to. We need to go back to Eden, where the problem arose in the first place. God warned Adam that disobedience would bring death. Adam did not die physically, that much is obvious. He could still think, reason, show emotion and choose - all faculties of the soul. So what is death? We see in Eden that Adam hid from God. He was naked and ashamed. He tried to hide from God but to no avail.

We know from God's Word that we are spirit, soul and body. So it was the spirit man that died. It is the spirit man that God makes alive when we are born again. So what happens then?

We need to know a deeper truth than forgiveness of sin. It's wonderful to be forgiven. I felt a load of guilt lift off me when I accepted Christ. But what happens then? That's what I needed to know. Many years later, I realised that there was an aspect to the Christian life that I was not aware of until then. This truth is that Christ is the Life of the born again believer. "Life" is not just going to heaven when you die. It is not a concept. It is not even a new way of living. So what is it?

We need to go back to Eden for the answer. Adam was supposed to eat the fruit of the tree of life. He did not. So Adam had no choice but to live according to the natural life that God gave him. So mankind generally lives by the principle of good and evil, right and wrong. That is why the Law appeals to so many. It is in line with human nature. God did not send His Son only to die for our sins. He died that we might live again. Not only that, He becomes the new life of those who are born again.

God gives us nothing, I repeat, nothing, outside of Christ. He gives us all things in Christ. Do a word study. Look up how many times the NT says, "in Christ" or "in Him". I got to 50 before I decided it was enough. Not only this, Christ is the life of the born again believer. As Adam should have eaten from the tree of Life, so the Christian should "eat" Christ (John 6). Jesus came that we might have life, not a better set of rules. Jesus is The Life, not just the best example to follow. I've heard many messages on Jesus as the Way to God. Christians know that Jesus is the truth (although many prefer the written Word to the Living Word) but not so many know Jesus as their life.

The New Testament confirms this. Galatians 2:20 is one of the best known verses but not so many realise what it means in experience. "Christ is your life" Colossians 3:4 and "For me, to live is Christ" Philippians 1:21, Jesus is the Life, John 11:25.

All very well, but what does it mean in practice? It means that we can quit trying to be good Christians. It means that we are already complete in Christ. It means that we are partakers of the divine nature. However, as Adam had to choose, so must we. It means to turn away from depending on what we think or feel and our own self will. We must ask Jesus to live out His life in us, through us and in place of who were are in ourselves. It is so simple that many miss it.

For many, the Christian life is burdensom. So many things to know, so many prohibitions and restrictions. Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. That's what happens when someone else is carrying your load. All we have to do is walk with Jesus moment by moment, day by day.

Does it work in practice? About 3 years ago, I went to hospital with a life threatening illness. It was pancreatitis. I was in such pain and stress that I sweated drops of blood. Yes, it can and does happen. I was in hospital 8 days. During that time, I had opportunity to witness to a doctor. I was able to encourage a Christian nurse. My now wife prayed for me, out loud. The same doctor told me that she saw my wife's prayer answered word for word. It was the hardest 8 days of my life in one way yet greatly blessed in others. And all through the ordeal, I was at peace. That is not natural. Jesus was my peace in that terrible storm.
 
Encouraging testimony, praise God.

We can all continue to grow in grace, there is always more to learn.

Just don't become a "grace legalist" and condemn people for their struggles.

Part of grace is ministering that grace to those who have less than we do.
 
I know what you mean, but I know my weaknesses all too well. That includes a propensity to pride. I won't bore you with the details, but I find it hard to think of an area of life in which I have not failed some way. God has a way of bringing people to an end of themselves. That can be a hard road but but it is essential for anyone who wants to be spiritual.
 
The word "savation" has come to mean going to heaven when you die and being forgiven. Some Christians promote the worthy idea that Christians should also live a life free from sin. While these concepts are true, they are also extremely limited. Salvation is vastly more than keeping your nose clean while you wait for the last trumpet.
Our salvation is from the penalty of our sin (Ephesians 2:8), from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10).

We need to know what we are saved from and what we are saved to. We need to go back to Eden, where the problem arose in the first place. God warned Adam that disobedience would bring death. Adam did not die physically, that much is obvious. He could still think, reason, show emotion and choose - all faculties of the soul. So what is death? We see in Eden that Adam hid from God. He was naked and ashamed. He tried to hide from God but to no avail.

We know from God's Word that we are spirit, soul and body. So it was the spirit man that died.

It is the spirit man that God makes alive when we are born again. So what happens then?

We need to know a deeper truth than forgiveness of sin. It's wonderful to be forgiven. I felt a load of guilt lift off me when I accepted Christ. But what happens then? That's what I needed to know. Many years later, I realised that there was an aspect to the Christian life that I was not aware of until then. This truth is that Christ is the Life of the born again believer. "Life" is not just going to heaven when you die. It is not a concept. It is not even a new way of living. So what is it?

We need to go back to Eden for the answer. Adam was supposed to eat the fruit of the tree of life. He did not. So Adam had no choice but to live according to the natural life that God gave him. So mankind generally lives by the principle of good and evil, right and wrong. That is why the Law appeals to so many. It is in line with human nature. God did not send His Son only to die for our sins. He died that we might live again.
Before Adam and Even ate from either tree they were at a crossroads between morality and eternal life, where eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused them to become mortal while eating from the Tree of Life would have caused them to have eternal life. In Deuteronomy 30:15-20, the Israelites were at an identical crossroads where Moses presented a choice between life and death, life and a blessing for obedience to God's law or death and a curse for disobedience, which is also why there are many other verses that connect eternal life with obedience to God's law. For example, in Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life, so the Bible starts and ends with the Tree of Life and everything in between is about how to undo the damage from eating from the Tree of Knowledge by choosing to eat from the Tree of Life instead.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by being God's commandments. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so living in obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice of whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong that we got from the Tree of Knowledge by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through what He has instructed, and He will make our way straight, which is the way to the Tree of Life, and this is what it means to have faith. In Proverbs 3:16-18, she is a Tree of Life for all who take hold of her.

Not only that, He becomes the new life of those who are born again.
In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again. Likewise, in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

God gives us nothing, I repeat, nothing, outside of Christ. He gives us all things in Christ. Do a word study. Look up how many times the NT says, "in Christ" or "in Him". I got to 50 before I decided it was enough. Not only this, Christ is the life of the born again believer. As Adam should have eaten from the tree of Life, so the Christian should "eat" Christ (John 6). Jesus came that we might have life, not a better set of rules. Jesus is The Life, not just the best example to follow. I've heard many messages on Jesus as the Way to God. Christians know that Jesus is the truth (although many prefer the written Word to the Living Word) but not so many know Jesus as their life.


The New Testament confirms this. Galatians 2:20 is one of the best known verses but not so many realise what it means in experience. "Christ is your life" Colossians 3:4 and "For me, to live is Christ" Philippians 1:21, Jesus is the Life, John 11:25.

All very well, but what does it mean in practice? It means that we can quit trying to be good Christians. It means that we are already complete in Christ. It means that we are partakers of the divine nature. However, as Adam had to choose, so must we. It means to turn away from depending on what we think or feel and our own self will. We must ask Jesus to live out His life in us, through us and in place of who were are in ourselves. It is so simple that many miss it.

For many, the Christian life is burdensom. So many things to know, so many prohibitions and restrictions. Jesus said that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. That's what happens when someone else is carrying your load. All we have to do is walk with Jesus moment by moment, day by day.
Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is the way that we live when he is living in us. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed through setting an example of how to live in obedience to God's law, so the way to partake in the divine nature is through following his example .

Does it work in practice? About 3 years ago, I went to hospital with a life threatening illness. It was pancreatitis. I was in such pain and stress that I sweated drops of blood. Yes, it can and does happen. I was in hospital 8 days. During that time, I had opportunity to witness to a doctor. I was able to encourage a Christian nurse. My now wife prayed for me, out loud. The same doctor told me that she saw my wife's prayer answered word for word. It was the hardest 8 days of my life in one way yet greatly blessed in others. And all through the ordeal, I was at peace. That is not natural. Jesus was my peace in that terrible storm.
Praise God!
 
The word "savation" has come to mean going to heaven when you die and being forgiven. Some Christians promote the worthy idea that Christians should also live a life free from sin. While these concepts are true, they are also extremely limited. Salvation is vastly more than keeping your nose clean while you wait for the last trumpet.
I agree.
We know from God's Word that we are spirit, soul and body. So it was the spirit man that died. It is the spirit man that God makes alive when we are born again. So what happens then?

We need to know a deeper truth than forgiveness of sin. It's wonderful to be forgiven. I felt a load of guilt lift off me when I accepted Christ. But what happens then? That's what I needed to know. Many years later, I realised that there was an aspect to the Christian life that I was not aware of until then. This truth is that Christ is the Life of the born again believer. "Life" is not just going to heaven when you die. It is not a concept. It is not even a new way of living. So what is it?

We need to go back to Eden for the answer. Adam was supposed to eat the fruit of the tree of life. He did not. So Adam had no choice but to live according to the natural life that God gave him. So mankind generally lives by the principle of good and evil, right and wrong. That is why the Law appeals to so many. It is in line with human nature. God did not send His Son only to die for our sins. He died that we might live again. Not only that, He becomes the new life of those who are born again.
Right on and excellent post! Many teach or put forth come to Jesus and get pardon for sins. That's really such a small part of what Jesus came to provide. I have a teaching series on my channel called, 'Light of Life and Born Again" Jesus said in John 8:12 "He that follows me shall not walk in darkness but he shall have the light of life! It's thee Light of Life not just the Light of Life. Thee Light of Life is God's Spirit his life, love and nature which comes to abide within us making us born again. As 1 Pt 1:4 states we have become partakers of the divine nature. The Christian walk isn't even trying to be like a Christian....it's rather letting his Life nature to live in us and through us. It's no longer us but it's Christ who lives in us and the life we now live we live by faith in the Son of God.. Much more can be said.
.......so the Christian should "eat" Christ (John 6). Jesus came that we might have life, not a better set of rules. Jesus is The Life, not just the best example to follow. I've heard many messages on Jesus as the Way to God. Christians know that Jesus is the truth (although many prefer the written Word to the Living Word) but not so many know Jesus as their life.
Right on.
The New Testament confirms this. Galatians 2:20 is one of the best known verses but not so many realise what it means in experience. "Christ is your life" Colossians 3:4 and "For me, to live is Christ" Philippians 1:21, Jesus is the Life, John 11:25.
You know that thing the world prides itself in thinking they know all about is LIFE. Really if they're alienated from the LIFE of God they don't know the first thing about it.
All very well, but what does it mean in practice? It means that we can quit trying to be good Christians. It means that we are already complete in Christ. It means that we are partakers of the divine nature.
Yes right on.
Does it work in practice? About 3 years ago, I went to hospital with a life threatening illness. It was pancreatitis. I was in such pain and stress that I sweated drops of blood. Yes, it can and does happen. I was in hospital 8 days. During that time, I had opportunity to witness to a doctor. I was able to encourage a Christian nurse. My now wife prayed for me, out loud. The same doctor told me that she saw my wife's prayer answered word for word. It was the hardest 8 days of my life in one way yet greatly blessed in others. And all through the ordeal, I was at peace. That is not natural. Jesus was my peace in that terrible storm.
Praise God great testimony. I had a healing story that I don't bellieve I've shared here. About three months ago my retina detached. A weekend went by before I could see a doctor. Not good at all. Needs to be done immediately. Well they put a gas bubble in my eye....joined the retina....won't get into what all that means....told me to come back in 7 days. For 7 days I had to keep my head down....well other things too...very difficult time, but I prayed for healing and thanked God for it for hours at a time.

I go back at the end of the week....OK read the chart with the good eye.....4 lines down I go....OK NOW the eye with the retina problem .....I read 4 lines down. She was amazed and said WOW we don't usually see this. What do you mean I asked. She said well you just read 4 lines down on that chart. I asked is that a good sign. She laughed and said, Well Bob there's two type of retina breaks....the good kind we call it...and the bad kind....you had the bad kind and we just never see one with your kind do this good. Another eye surgeon across the hall came in too and looked at the computer....they asked can you really see that good with that eye. YES. They said too we don't usually see that at all. So I say THANK GOD.
 
Question.... "are we saved right now as we speak, or do we have a PROMISE/Guarantee of Salvation?".

101G.
 
Question.... "are we saved right now as we speak, or do we have a PROMISE/Guarantee of Salvation?".

101G.
Yes and no. We have been saved from the penalty of our sin (Ephesians 2:5), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10).
 
Question.... "are we saved right now as we speak, or do we have a PROMISE/Guarantee of Salvation?".

101G.
We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. Salvation is past, present and future. :)

Scripture says the following regarding salvation. There is a past aspect, a present aspect and a future aspect to our salvation.

Past
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. cf Acts 15:11; Ephesians 2:5

Present
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. cf Acts 2:47; 2 Corinthians 2:15

Future
Romans 5:9
having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

hope this helps!!!
 
We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. Salvation is past, present and future.
not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, Romans 8:22 "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:23 "And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Romans 8:27 "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

we're saved by ... "HOPE" as said if we have eternal life ALREADY, SAVED, why hope for it? ......... if you already have it. but we don't, not until he returns. and until then as the scriptures states we wait. but while waiting we're ... "COMFORTED", we're HELPED, we have an Advocate, an Intercessor on our behalf in the guarantee of FAITH. for he is Faithful and cannot LIE. for by FAITH we're SAVE, so why HOPE? for Faith is the substance of things _________ for, the evidence of things not seen. just fill in the blank.

so we LIVE IN "HOPE" which is by Faith, until he returns. for we have a PROMISE. until then...... ADD TO YOUR FAITH, scripture, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;" 2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" 2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity." 2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."

101G.
 
The word "savation" has come to mean going to heaven when you die and being forgiven.
Among other things. Salvation has nothing to do with being "Forgiven" and everything to do with being CLEANSED OF ALL SIN. It doesn't take BLOOD to forgive, it's simply a decision to "Tear up the I.O.U." It DOES take blood to CLEANSE from Sin.
 
Among other things. Salvation has nothing to do with being "Forgiven" and everything to do with being CLEANSED OF ALL SIN. It doesn't take BLOOD to forgive, it's simply a decision to "Tear up the I.O.U." It DOES take blood to CLEANSE from Sin.
Jesus did forgive many people by His authority to forgive true sins without any sacrifices for their sins.
 
Jesus did forgive many people by His authority to forgive true sins without any sacrifices for their sins.

On the basis of Jesus' future sacrifice:

25 Whom God hath set forth as a propitiatory covering, through faith in his blood, for a showing forth of his righteousness, by reason of the passing-by of the previously committed sins,
26 In the forbearance of God,--with a view to a showing forth of his righteousness in the present season, that he might be righteous even when declaring righteous him that hath faith in Jesus.
(Rom. 3:25-26 ROT)
 
Jesus did forgive many people by His authority to forgive true sins without any sacrifices for their sins.
And I've got the SAME AUTHORITY to forgive those who SIN against me. Forgiveness is EASY, but the SIN remains, and the Old Testament sacrifice only "Hid Sin" temporarily.
 
Among other things. Salvation has nothing to do with being "Forgiven" and everything to do with being CLEANSED OF ALL SIN. It doesn't take BLOOD to forgive, it's simply a decision to "Tear up the I.O.U." It DOES take blood to CLEANSE from Sin.
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace Ephesians 1:7
 
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace Ephesians 1:7
But more importantly THE CLEANSING/REMOVAL of our SIN. "Forgiveness" doesn't require "BLOOD", cleansing does.

If you steal $100 from me, I CAN forgive you, But your SIN remains. David was forgiven by God, BUT HE WAS STILL AN ADULTERER / MURDERER.
 
But more importantly THE CLEANSING/REMOVAL of our SIN. "Forgiveness" doesn't require "BLOOD", cleansing does.

If you steal $100 from me, I CAN forgive you, But your SIN remains. David was forgiven by God, BUT HE WAS STILL AN ADULTERER / MURDERER.

That's a whole lot of "theology" there, Bob. :)
 
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