Recognizing the early church canon by the NT....

[praise_yeshua]

We can confirm the early church's canon of choice from the writers of the NT.

For example, we can clearly know that the Protestant/Calvinist canon is incomplete because the writers of the NT referenced information that is only available in one specific edition of the OT. There are many examples but here is just one.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
Joh 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

The feast of Dedication is not found at all in the Protestant Canon. Not once.

The book of Maccabees is referenced by Jesus here. Most Protestants don't even know this. If the Maccabees hadn't reclaimed and rededicated the Temple, Jesus wouldn't have even been standing in the Temple declaring His own Divinity.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

[Dizerner]

This guy and his friend Dan Chapa, two theological friends of mine, have a good series on the canon, and will be debating it this week, they are very knowledgeable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tFdsLEylKM&pp=0gcJCbEJAYcqIYzv

 

[praise_yeshua]

This guy and his friend Dan Chapa, two theological friends of mine, have a good series on the canon, and will be debating it this week, they are very knowledgeable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tFdsLEylKM&pp=0gcJCbEJAYcqIYzv

Ask Celeb why we should reject the historical accuracy of the book of Maccabees yet accept the varying narrative of the historical books of the Reigns?

I'll join the debate if you're accepting an hostile position. This isn't a friendly conversation. It is filled with hypocrisy revolving around so many false doctrines fabricated to keep men from asking questions.

 

[Dizerner]

I'll join the debate if you're accepting an hostile position.

Join their live stream sometime, they take questions.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Join their live stream sometime, they take questions.

Yeah... Sam will tell others that he will take their questions________ until he doesn't. Everyone seems to have a fear of being wrong. Thusly, they always seek to limit debate. I saw some of Sam's companions in the video you posted.

Should I really expect differently from these people? Most youtube channels are nothing more than "echo chambers". I don't need information from them. I can gather it myself. Anyone can. It just takes time and effort that most people will not put forth.

Is the book of Maccabees true?

 

[Dizerner]

Is the book of Maccabees true?

I'm sure it has some historical information, but it is not theologically inspired.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm sure it has some historical information, but it is not theologically inspired.

There is that word again..... "inspired". You do realize that people use that word for all types of evil.

I asked if Maccabees is true? I didn't ask if was "inspired" in the context of what you believe about inspiration.

These types of conversations are difficult because of all the "loaded" theology that exists today.

So again..... is Maccabees true?

Just to jump the end of my argument.....

TRUTH only has its origins in God. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. It is SENT down to us from God. It is .....to use your jargon of choice.... INSPIRED.

So. If Maccabees is true. Then this context of "inspiration" where people seek to limit the truth of what people believe is a lie. We all know where lies come from. Truth hurts. Truth creates enemies. Truth separates.

Also, There is no difference between Maccabees and any of the historical books of the canon you and Celeb accept while rejecting the truth from other things you don't accept.

Simple but profound.

Now explain to me why they are?

You should notice that I quoted the book of James above.

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

You may know that I reject James as being absolute truth. There things that are right in the book of James and there are things that are wrong in the book of James. I learned a long time ago not to "buy" what that has been peddled for thousands of years concerning the "canon".

Your position seeks to reject Truth through a false understanding of the doctrine of canonicity. I'll take truth wherever it comes from. Books. the Bible. Nature. Men. Wives. Husbands and even little children....

You know the manuscript that Matthew quoted from what we call the Psalm 8:2....

Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise, because of thine enemies; that thou mightest put down the enemy and avenger.

Not that pesky MT you're fond of....

 

[Dizerner]

So again..... is Maccabees true?

Partially, but most definitely not theologically true.

I mean the phone book is "true" in that sense.

(Are there phone books anymore?)

 

[Dizerner]

Also who in the world is Sam and Celeb?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Partially, but most definitely not theologically true.

I mean the phone book is "true" in that sense.

(Are there phone books anymore?)

The phone book was true. Did you find a mistake? Did you tell someone so it could be corrected?

I'm glad that you used that analogy. Make the comparison....

James is not theologically true relative to how he constructs justification. James is not theologically true when comparing the faith of devils (that Jesus didn't die for) and mankind. James is theologically wrong about Abraham's faith.

Glad you made the comparison. Reconsider your position.

So what is "theologically wrong" about Maccabees? My bet is you don't know all there is know about the circumstances. Who knows... I might actually agree with you. Even if I do agree with you. It doesn't stop people from looking for Truth in the all those other words that are true. Just like James......

See how the word "inspiration".... "covers" up the sins of those claiming to have God on their side?

My mistake about Celeb. Right now, I can't remember why I used that name.

The video you posted contains men that associate with Sam Shamoun. He recently called me a dog and sent me a fake skype address while claiming I was dodging him.

When I told him that God feeds the dogs from the crumbs that fall from the Master's table....... he deleted everything and pretended it didn't happen.....

That is what people do. Happens all the time. I expect it anymore. I wish it were different but I can only stand for the truth and try to influence others to seek God themselves.

Hey. We don't have to agree. Believe what you want to believe. Or we can argue about it. I'm not going to pretend it is anything other than an opposing view.

Thanks for listening to my "rant"..... if that is what you decide to consider it.

 

[Dizerner]

That is what people do. Happens all the time. I expect it anymore. I wish it were different but I can only stand for the truth and try to influence others to seek God themselves.

I assure you, that although these people debate Sam Shamoun, they are not friends with him and nothing like him. Don't draw connections where there are not any. Merely having a theological opponent does not make one guilty. These men conduct themselves well, they do not call people dogs and whores and ban them flippantly, as Sam Shamoun does, and has frequently been called out for doing.

Hey. We don't have to agree. Believe what you want to believe. Or we can argue about it. I'm not going to pretend it is anything other than an opposing view.

Yes, I consider James the holy Words of God, and you, apparently, consider Maccabees the holy Words of God, so you will obviously know Maccabees much better than I do. But our positions, as I have constantly pointed out to you, are irreconcilably different in almost every way.

The only thing I truly fear for is the fate of your soul, as you have resisted core essential truths about God's grace which shows a real lack of humility.

If you do not humble yourself to trust in Christ to suffer what your sins deserve, you will NOT enter heaven, my dear friend.

And I really want to see you there.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I assure you, that although these people debate Sam Shamoun, they are not friends with him and nothing like him. Don't draw connections where there are not any. Merely having a theological opponent does not make one guilty. These men conduct themselves well, they do not call people dogs and whores and ban them flippantly, as Sam Shamoun does, and has frequently been called out for doing.

I don't mind the rants from Sam. Doesn't bother me at all. I don't condemn him for name calling. I just don't like the pretense. I hate that in most everything. I don't try to be that way myself. If I'm wrong, I try to admit it. I don't think I'm perfect but I believe I can spot a lie more now than I could when I was younger. Experience works. Not claiming I'm anything other than informed.

I wasn't specifically associating those you prefer with Sam. Just drawing from my own experience. The "name calling" isn't really the problem. I noticed that most people run in the "same circles" and do the "same things" at a fundamental level.

If I posted or said something that destroyed their argument...... would they actually leave it up for everyone to see???

I'm skeptical. Ultimately, that is what "I'm getting at".....

Yes, I consider James the holy Words of God, and you, apparently, consider Maccabees the holy Words of God, so you will obviously know Maccabees much better than I do. But our positions, as I have constantly pointed out to you, are irreconcilably different in almost every way.

The only thing I truly fear for is the fate of your soul, as you have resisted core essential truths about God's grace which shows a real lack of humility.

If you do not humble yourself to trust in Christ to suffer what your sins deserve, you will NOT enter heaven, my dear friend.

And I really want to see you there.

I believe you. I appreciate the open honesty. That is fine. I don't hold it against you. I've said before, I have a very low threshold for acceptance in "The Beloved".

You've had the opportunity to hear my "side". I'm not calling "God down" on my side. This is what I SAY....

Yet, I believe I'm on God's side. If I didn't, I wouldn't be doing this at all. That is my own perspective and that is exactly the way it should be for both of us.

I believe we can discern sincerity through embracing the details of any choices we make.

 

[praise_yeshua]

@Dizerner I responded to the video and offered to do a live session. Maybe we can work this out....

 

[Studyman]

We can confirm the early church's canon of choice from the writers of the NT.

For example, we can clearly know that the Protestant/Calvinist canon is incomplete because the writers of the NT referenced information that is only available in one specific edition of the OT. There are many examples but here is just one.

Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
Joh 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

The feast of Dedication is not found at all in the Protestant Canon. Not once.

The book of Maccabees is referenced by Jesus here. Most Protestants don't even know this. If the Maccabees hadn't reclaimed and rededicated the Temple, Jesus wouldn't have even been standing in the Temple declaring His own Divinity.

Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Where did Jesus say anything about Maccabees? Please show me because when I read the account, Jesus doesn't even mention the feast?

The reason why Moses never mentioned Feast of Dedication, or Feast of Purim, are because these are not "Feasts of the Lord". These are "traditions of men" the Pharisees and rebellious Jews taught for doctrines. Hanukkah is not a "Feast of the Lord" any more than the Feast of Purim was a Feast of the Lord, Christmas or Halloween or Day of the Dead.

You will notice that Jesus never observed Hanukkah. Never spoke of the reason why it was instituted a mere 165 years before He spoke to them.

One way to tell the difference between the "Feasts of the Lord", besides the Word of God giving them to Moses, which should be enough, is if they are "Shadows of things Yet to come". Passover is a reminder of an unavoidable judgment that is stayed if the "Life" of the "Lamb of God" is seen by the Judge in the person. Each of the Feasts of the Lord foreshadow future events and are given to God's People as a means of "Remembrance", or as a Mercy to keep us in the "Way of the Lord".

It was the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, who instructed Moses in the first place, as to the "Feasts of the Lord, as they are HIS Feasts.

Hanukkah is a shadow of nothing. Those people who Followed the Christ, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna all knew this Christ, and they heard His Voice and were "Doers of His Sayings".

Jesus knew that God doesn't dwell in man-made Temples made of wood and stone. The Temple HE walked in to teach those in attendance, was not the Temple of God, the man teaching there was the Temple of God.

1 Kings 9: 5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.

6 "But" if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:

7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

8 And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?

9 And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

The Temple had been cast away by God long before Jesus got there. And in part, because of men who "professed to God, but created their own high days.

 

[Dizerner]

The Lord honored the Feast of Dedication to celebrate Jewish history not promote any specific writings.

 

[Dizerner]

Yet, I believe I'm on God's side. If I didn't, I wouldn't be doing this at all.

The Bahai thinks he is on God's side.

The Mormons think they are on God's side.

The Muslims think they are on God's side.

All that matters—is you are on the side of Jesus Christ in the Bible and his Cross.

He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and there is NO OTHER way to the Father but THROUGH him.

Realize your sinfulness before a holy God, and trust in the sacrifice of Christ for your sins this day.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Lord honored the Feast of Dedication to celebrate Jewish history not promote any specific writings.

Then Christ honored the Sabbath to celebrate Jewish history. Not to promote any specific writings.

See how easy that is to debunk?

This nonsense happens when you blindly believe what you want to hear.....

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Bahai thinks he is on God's side.

The Mormons think they are on God's side.

The Muslims think they are on God's side.

All that matters—is you are on the side of Jesus Christ in the Bible and his Cross.

He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and there is NO OTHER way to the Father but THROUGH him.

Realize your sinfulness before a holy God, and trust in the sacrifice of Christ for your sins this day.

I agree that "He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and there is NO OTHER way to the Father but THROUGH him."

So now how do you justify rejecting me from the beloved?

You see me as sinful. You don't get to make that judgement of me to God. I have a Master and it is not you. You don't speak for Him. He speaks for Himself.

 

[Dizerner]

You see me as sinful. You don't get to make that judgement of me to God. I have a Master and it is not you. You don't speak for Him. He speaks for Himself.

Scripture says ALL have sinned and fall short.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 Jn. 1:8 NKJ)

You cannot get to heaven trusting in your own merit on the coattails of Jesus.

This is a matter of admitting your sinfulness before God.

You don't need a cure, if you are not sick—you don't need a Savior, if you have no sin.

And the Lord did not lay our sins on anyone else but Jesus.

This is a salvific issue.

 

[Dizerner]

Then Christ honored the Sabbath to celebrate Jewish history. Not to promote any specific writings.

See how easy that is to debunk?

That did not debunk anything though.

It's just a tu quoque fallacy.

Jesus does not have to honor each holiday for the exact same reason.