Need a reason to believe Calvinists are who they claim to be?

[Titus]

No its not, unless the obedience to Gods will is after one is saved. However if someone means that God saves us only after we obey His will, thats works, works and more works.

Where is your evidence that you are saved, elect?

I have no evidence for you

I have no evidence for you

I got no evidence for you, you will find out on Judgment day, hows that ?

I have no evidence for myself to share with you

- by this SHALL ALL MEN KNOW that ye are My disciples if ye have love one to another
John 13:35

How does a calvinist know they are saved/elected?
If good works are the evidence.
Then how can anyone enter heaven without good works ?

 

[Red Baker]

@Titus

Then how can anyone enter heaven without good works ?

Titus, good works are the fruits of the new man that God by His almighty power created within us at regeneration. The old man, or our flesh, has not one good thing in it, that can do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, not one.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

That is, in my flesh as I'am by nature. So, if a man said he knows God. and does not have Godly fruit in his life to support that confession, then his confession means nothing.

 

[Titus]

@Titus

Titus, good works are the fruits of the new man that God by His almighty power created within us at regeneration. The old man, or our flesh, has not one good thing in it, that can do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, not one.

Romans 7:18​

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”

That is, in my flesh as I'am by nature. So, if a man said he knows God. and does not have Godly fruit in his life to support that confession, then his confession means nothing.

Do you know that your evidence of election is by your good fruit, which is works of the Spirit?
Galatians 5:16-24

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Brightframe is not really a calvinist. so he says.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Do you know that you are elected by your good fruit, which is works of the Spirit?
Galatians 5:16-24

so we are unber law.. we earn our salvation?

 

[Titus]

if a man said he knows God. and does not have Godly fruit in his life to support that confession, then his confession means nothing.

So you are teaching me the elected must have good works to be elected.
Therefore it logically follows that no one will be in heaven without fruit of the Spirit, godly works.

Now explain how faith alone apart from good works saves/elects and gives one a home in heaven since this supposed salvation has no evidence of election?

 

[Titus]

so we are unber law.. we earn our salvation?

This is a misrepresentation of what I believe.
I've never believed in meritorious salvation or works salvation.
Never will.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ; 10

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So you are teaching me the elected must have good works to be elected.
Therefore it logically follows that no one will be in heaven without fruit of the Spirit, godly works.

Now explain how faith alone apart from good works saves/elects and gives one a home in heaven since this supposed salvation has no evidence of election?

does God need evidence?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is a misrepresentation of what I believe.
I've never believed in meritorious salvation or works salvation.
Never will.
Ephesians 2:8-9 ; 10

so then producing fruit has nothing to do with our election>

 

[Titus]

so then producing fruit has nothing to do with our election>

So when a Christian produces good fruit you call that meritorious works.
The Bible never defines fruit of the Spirit that way.
Neither will I.

Exodus 20:16,
- you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So when a Christian produces good fruit you call that meritorious works.

No. Because if they are a Christian, by definition, they are already saved (by Grace through faith)

The Bible never defines fruit of the Spirit that way.
Neither will I.

Exodus 20:16,
- you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

You never answered my question. Is producing fruit required to be part of the election (which would make producing fruit by YOUR definition. a meritorious work (your trying to merit salvation)

don;t falsly accuse me, until you answer my question

 

[Titus]

No. Because if they are a Christian, by definition, they are already saved (by Grace through faith)

You never answered my question. Is producing fruit required to be part of the election (which would make producing fruit by YOUR definition. a meritorious work (your trying to merit salvation)

don;t falsly accuse me, until you answer my question

Faith is a work of obedience, John 6:28-29.
Faith is commanded 1John 3:23-24.
When commandments are obeyed, Biblically this is works of faith and never defined as works of merit, Ephesians 2:8-9.

No false accsation made.
Am I a meritorious works based salvationist ? Is that how you would define my religion?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Faith is a work of obedience, John 6:28-29.

It is the work of God you have faith.

Faith is commanded 1John 3:23-24.
When commandments are obeyed, Biblically this is works of faith and never defined as works of merit, Ephesians 2:8-9.

No false accsation made.
Am I a meritorious works based salvationist ? Is that how you would define my religion?

You tell me. Do I have to produce fruit in order to be saved?

or do I produce fruit because I HAVE BEEN saved?

 

[Titus]

You tell me

Stop dodging my question.
Am I a merit earning salvationist?

Or you can just say no.

 

[Titus]

It is the work of God you have faith

Does man believe in Jesus or does God do the believing for us? John 6:28-29.

 

[Titus]

It is the work of God you have faith

Does man believe in Jesus or does God do the believing for us?

so then producing fruit has nothing to do with our election>

So there is a difference between works one does to earn salvation versus obedience to God's will. This is a distinction amy refuse to make and seem to want to make obedience to God's will a work of merit

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Stop dodging my question.
Am I a merit earning salvationist?

Or you can just say no.

I can not answer until you answer my question.

Do you believe fruit bearing is required or not?

why can't YOU answer.?? then demand I answer when I do not yet have enough information to give an answer

 

[Titus]

Do you know that your evidence of election is by your good fruit, which is works of the Spirit?
Galatians 5:16-24

This was my mistake. I had not noticed I worded my question incorrectly.
It should read.

Do you know if evidence of your election is by your good works, which is fruit of the Spirit.
I apologize for any confusion.

 

[Titus]

I can not answer until you answer my question.

Do you believe fruit bearing is required or not?

why can't YOU answer.?? then demand I answer when I do not yet have enough information to give an answer

I already answered.
Faith is a work, John 6:28-29.
Faith is essential for salvation,
Hebrews 11:6

Now show you have integrity and answer my questions.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Does man believe in Jesus or does God do the believing for us? John 6:28-29.

Its the work of God we believe

they asked what work they could do. He told them NON. it is Gods work.

we can not come to faith apart from Gods work.. He gets the credit. not you or I