Money Matters

[Behold]

Reader.,

Biblical Wealth, and having it, is an interesting Bible subject.

Paul calls it "filthy lucre" in Titus, but admonishes one of His planted Churches for not giving enough into His ministry.

Deut : 8, tells us that God gives us ""the power to get wealth"", and that is related to establishing the/His "covenant".

And in the NT, it "costs to reach the Lost".

And one of the ways the lost are "reached" is.. they go into a church building and get saved. And that church has to pay the electric bill and the Pastor's Salary.

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Jesus said that "give and it shall be given unto you = pressed down and given back".., and He's also talking about money.

Jesus said its ""more blessed to give.. .then it is to receive""... and he's also talking about money.

Many believers feel they are directed by the scriptures to : "tithe and offerings", and if you dont have any money, then how can you obey?

How can you give to the poor if you are too poor to give yourself some food?

There is the "love of money" and there is "the prosperity gospel". They are extremely related.

There is also "seedtime and harvest" in the world and this is also found in the spiritual realm as "sowing and reaping".

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I would tell you that there is the "poverty gospel" that claims that suffering hunger, and sleeping on the street in the winter, and having nothing... is going to make you more ""spiritual.""
It wont.
It'll make you more hungry, more bitter, and it'll help you die suffering at a younger age.

Now.....Let me ask you a question.....

Have you ever been really hungry...... just starving.....?
And did this make you love God more?
Did it make you want to pick up a bible and memorize some verses?

So, that is how that works... yet... if you set aside some time to fast and pray, then God will meet you because you are "diligently seeking Him" and that is different....
That's alone time with God.... = will help you to understand some things about the "flesh" .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you wanted to teach a SS Class about money.

You would tell them that : "Money matters.

Try buying food without it.
Try using the internet if you dont have any electricity.
Try reading the bible by candlelight because you have no money to pay the power bill.
Try going to the food store and you have no car and no money.

Money matters.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if you have a issue with money, if you love it too much....vs wanting to have PLENTY... as that is not the same thing.. then you are the problem, not the money.

What does having "Plenty of money" mean?

It means that you have enough at all times for any situation.
If the car breaks down, you can pay for the repair or get another one.
If your neighbor needs a washing machine, you buy them one, or a lawn mower, or a car.
If your mother needs ......
If your brother needs .......
If your child needs. ......
if YOU need .......

Then "plenty" = is to have enough so that everyone can benefit from yours, including you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is something to remember, regarding all ye who would want to know..

The Bible teaches.. that ..

"= Poverty is the DESTRUCTION of the POOR"...... not prosperity.

Now, Let me show you one more thing to think about, Reader.

It's this..

When you became a Christian, born again, its because God purchased you with the Blood of His Son.
NO Cross of Christ, then no Salvation for anyone, ever.
You are "bought with a Price", and that price is the Sacred and Holy Blood of Jesus THE Lord.

You are now "OWNED" by God, and you are a Son/Daughter of God.

So what does that mean? = To be redeemed BY The Blood of The Lamb, regarding your wealth?

It means that all of you, and everything you own, belongs to God.

Literally, you dont own anything. .. God owns it and you are getting to use it.

So, as you have become an HEIR of God, you also become an owner of all that God is, all that God has and all that God can provide.

:But understand that this is you using what GOD owns.

So, when you have PLENTY of Money, or a nice house, or anything else... it all belongs to God.
You are literally using what belongs to your FATHER In Heaven..
So, use it accordingly as a good and faithful Steward....

And why does money you give, come back to you as an Increase, always?

Its because you are giving God's money, and everything with God is going to increase.
That is because the Life of God is always about increase and growth, and never is it about lack or death.
When you give God's money,.. and its all His, then He makes it GROW., as That is just the natural outcome of anything that God touches.
Listen Saint... = what you give away with the right motive, God will touch and bless you again.
See, God only touches things with LIFE, and "that more abundantly".
And that is why you can have Faith in God to restore, return, heal, prosper... all of this.
As when God touches anything, He touches it with LIFE.
And God's LIFE always brings increase.

 

[koberstein]

Reader.,

Biblical Wealth, and having it, is an interesting Bible subject.

Paul calls it "filthy lucre" in Titus, but admonishes one of His planted Churches for not giving enough into His ministry.

Deut : 8, tells us that God gives us ""the power to get wealth"", and that is related to establishing the/His "covenant".

And in the NT, it "costs to reach the Lost".

And one of the ways the lost are "reached" is.. they go into a church building and get saved. And that church has to pay the electric bill and the Pastor's Salary.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jesus said that "give and it shall be given unto you = pressed down and given back".., and He's also talking about money.

Jesus said its ""more blessed to give.. .then it is to receive""... and he's also talking about money.

Many believers feel they are directed by the scriptures to : "tithe and offerings", and if you dont have any money, then how can you obey?

How can you give to the poor if you are too poor to give yourself some food?

There is the "love of money" and there is "the prosperity gospel". They are extremely related.

There is also "seedtime and harvest" in the world and this is also found in the spiritual realm as "sowing and reaping".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would tell you that there is the "poverty gospel" that claims that suffering hunger, and sleeping on the street in the winter, and having nothing... is going to make you more ""spiritual.""
It wont.
It'll make you more hungry, more bitter, and it'll help you die suffering at a younger age.

Now.....Let me ask you a question.....

Have you ever been really hungry...... just starving.....?
And did this make you love God more?
Did it make you want to pick up a bible and memorize some verses?

So, that is how that works... yet... if you set aside some time to fast and pray, then God will meet you because you are "diligently seeking Him" and that is different....
That's alone time with God.... = will help you to understand some things about the "flesh" .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you wanted to teach a SS Class about money.

You would tell them that : "Money matters.

Try buying food without it.
Try using the internet if you dont have any electricity.
Try reading the bible by candlelight because you have no money to pay the power bill.
Try going to the food store and you have no car and no money.

Money matters.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And if you have a issue with money, if you love it too much....vs wanting to have PLENTY... as that is not the same thing.. then you are the problem, not the money.

What does having "Plenty of money" mean?

It means that you have enough at all times for any situation.
If the car breaks down, you can pay for the repair or get another one.
If your neighbor needs a washing machine, you buy them one, or a lawn mower, or a car.
If your mother needs ......
If your brother needs .......
If your child needs. ......
if YOU need .......

Then "plenty" = is to have enough so that everyone can benefit from yours, including you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is something to remember, regarding all ye who would want to know..

The Bible teaches.. that ..

"= Poverty is the DESTRUCTION of the POOR"...... not prosperity.

Now, Let me show you one more thing to think about, Reader.

It's this..

When you became a Christian, born again, its because God purchased you with the Blood of His Son.
NO Cross of Christ, then no Salvation for anyone, ever.
You are "bought with a Price", and that price is the Sacred and Holy Blood of Jesus THE Lord.

You are now "OWNED" by God, and you are a Son/Daughter of God.

So what does that mean? = To be redeemed BY The Blood of The Lamb, regarding your wealth?

It means that all of you, and everything you own, belongs to God.

Literally, you dont own anything. .. God owns it and you are getting to use it.

So, as you have become an HEIR of God, you also become an owner of all that God is, all that God has and all that God can provide.

:But understand that this is you using what GOD owns.

So, when you have PLENTY of Money, or a nice house, or anything else... it all belongs to God.
You are literally using what belongs to your FATHER In Heaven..
So, use it accordingly as a good and faithful Steward....

And why does money you give, come back to you as an Increase, always?

Its because you are giving God's money, and everything with God is going to increase.
That is because the Life of God is always about increase and growth, and never is it about lack or death.
When you give God's money,.. and its all His, then He makes it GROW., as That is just the natural outcome of anything that God touches.
Listen Saint... = what you give away with the right motive, God will touch and bless you again.
See, God only touches things with LIFE, and "that more abundantly".
And that is why you can have Faith in God to restore, return, heal, prosper... all of this.
As when God touches anything, He touches it with LIFE.
And God's LIFE always brings increase.

I hate to pop your legalistic balloon, but tithing ceased when the 2nd Temple
was destroyed in 70 AD when it was used to support the Levitical Priesthood.
Tithing is not a requirement. You will never see offering plates being passed in
a Messianic church or synagogue.
You would be better served to extract the wisdom of Mishlei (Proverbs) 22:7
The rich rule the poor, and the borrower is a slave to the lender. Jewish Messianic Version

 

[Behold]

I hate to pop your legalistic balloon, but tithing ceased when the 2nd Temple
was destroyed in 70 AD

If you can read, then slowly read what i wrote regarding tithes and offerings.
I said that """Many believers feel THEY are directed by the scriptures. to tithe and offer."""

I didnt say the bible teaches it, and i didnt say that ALL do it.
As obviously you dont @koberstein

Also, the Tithe was instituted before the Law of Moses was given.

Paul in the NT.... said that God loves a "cheerful giver", not a cheerful tithe-er

Paul said this... """" Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."""

Some would teach that the "gathering" is related to the Tithe or the Offering.

So, its good to tithe and produce offerings, because its good to give.

Do it because you love God and Love Jesus, if you do.

 

[koberstein]

If you can read, then slowly read what i wrote regarding tithes and offerings.
I said that """Many believers feel THEY are directed by the scriptures. to tithe and offer."""

I didnt say the bible teaches it, and i didnt say that ALL do it.
As obviously you dont @koberstein

Also, the Tithe was instituted before the Law of Moses was given.

Paul in the NT.... said that God loves a "cheerful giver", not a cheerful tithe-er

Paul said this... """" Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."""

Some would teach that the "gathering" is related to the Tithe or the Offering.

So, its good to tithe and produce offerings, because its good to give.

Do it because you love God and Love Jesus, if you do.

Tithing is not required (see my previous post). However, widows and orphans should be taken care of according to the B'rit Hadashah. Gosh I wonder how many churches do that?

 

[Behold]

Tithing is not required

As i said.. in the Thread.

If you can read, then slowly read what i wrote regarding tithes and offerings.
I said that """Many believers feel THEY are directed by the scriptures. to tithe and offer."""

 

[koberstein]

As i said.. in the Thread.

If you can read, then slowly read what i wrote regarding tithes and offerings.
I said that """Many believers feel THEY are directed by the scriptures. to tithe and offer."""

Gosh I wonder what scriptures they are reading?
Shabbat Shalom

 

[Behold]

Gosh I wonder what scriptures they are reading?
Shabbat Shalom

“For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability” (2 Cor. 8:3).

“Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously”(2 Cor. 9:6).

“On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income” (1 Cor. 16:2).

"""""Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, = $$$$$$$$$$$.... especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." 1 Timothy 5:17

So, NT verses talk about giving, and when, and how, and why...... and OT verses do the same.

Eventually It all becomes taught as "Tithing and offering".

 

[koberstein]

“For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability” (2 Cor. 8:3).

“Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously”(2 Cor. 9:6).

“On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income” (1 Cor. 16:2).

"""""Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, = $$$$$$$$$$$.... especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." 1 Timothy 5:17

So, NT verses talk about giving, and when, and how, and why...... and OT verses do the same.

Eventually It all becomes taught as "Tithing and offering".

2 Cor 8:3
I tell you they have not merely given according to their means, but of their own free will they have given beyond their means.
No explicit command here for tithing.
Sounds more like a Mitzvah (act of kindness)
1 Cor 16:2
Every week, on Motza'ei-Shabbat, each of you should set some money aside, according to his resources, and save it up; so that when I come I won't have to do fundraising.
No explicit command here for tithing either
1 Tim 5:17
The leaders who lead well should be considered worthy of double honor, especially those working hard at communicating the Word and at teaching.
No explicit command here for tithing.
This scripture is from the Messianic Jewish Version.
Like I said in a previous posting. Tithing went away after the destruction of the 2 Temple in 70 AD. When the Levitical Priesthood was being supported. I do believe the Brit Hadashah says to take care of the widows and orphans. You will never see so called offering plates being passed in a Messianic church or synagogue. There will be containers at the rear of the church to give to the poor. If you want to do a Mitzvah at church and give that's totally up to you, but it's not tithing. In the ancient Hebrew antiquity the tithing to the Temple was commanded to be 10%, but according to the rabbi's and sages it was closer to 20% that was actually given. Today church giving and attendance is at an all time low.

 

[Behold]

Like I said in a previous posting. Tithing went away after the destruction of the 2 Temple in 70 AD.

As ive posted 2x already to you, .. i never said that Tithing was required.

I posted multiply verses that explain why some denominations use them as their "tithe" theology.
I didnt say it was true.

So, "preterism" , is a fail. @koberstein

Only Preterists, obsess on AD70 and want to talk about it.

Real believers know better then to get lost into that rabbit trail that goes nowhere.

 

[koberstein]

Why do you continue to spread heresy?
You like to spread false interpretations of Scripture to support your false narrative about tithing and every time I will post tithing is not required. If you didn't say it was true than why post it? Are you a real believer?
I couldn't tell by your posting.

 

[Rockson]

Eventually It all becomes taught as "Tithing and offering".

It should never ever however be taught with the using of the words tithing even though some may choose to give 10% or even more. There's a certain thing about the tithing subject that I've seldom seen any get a clear overall understanding of and that is this......God established tithing in Israel to be the thing that made that nation work....and function.

I just makes sense in a compassionate society to have a safety net for those who can't provide. Widows, orphans, civil servants whose job it is to serve the people. That is what the Levites were not just priests.....but they carried out civil servant duties.

Now go over to other nations....Gentile nations. They likewise had the things which caused their nations to function EVEN TO THIS DAY. It's called taxation and look what it achieves.....it provides welfare, for the poor and needy and then we have our civil servant class. It's ironic that modern church men lament that some, many or a few won't tithe......but they don't get in fact the person they're making light of HAS been doing that to make their nation function and probably doing so more than a tithing Israelite did.

It's called about a 30% tax on everyone's income. No it's not something they have a sense that they've given for its taken out automatically out of their pay .....it is however providing that which causes their nation to function, just as with Israel. Now there was a slight difference. Levite priests also were doing spiritual work but really the whole tithing thing from top to bottom was the provision to make the nation work and function.

Now there's no mandate in the Apostles Paul's writing to insist that men give that to cause their nations to function. Paul would never have to do that for the government would rightly take care of that. Government would say you're going to pay or taxes or else! LOL.

So Paul on the giving theme.....look tithing was in the law written to Israel as citizens of that country. None of that can rightly apply to any Gentile nations BUT.....remember and keep in mind....God loves a cheerful giver. What do you think you can afford to participate in giving blessings to the Kingdom of God and it's work. Everyone decides that themselves but he made it clear he never made it a law or a percentage thing to be over people's minds or conscience.

I think the best way now is for each one to pray and get a feel of what God is telling one to give. God could (not saying he will) but he could tell one to give something like 40% or their wealth away......way, way, way above just a tithes but they still might have left over well enough to live a comfortable life. (much more of things could be said)

 

[koberstein]

It should never ever however be taught with the using of the words tithing even though some may choose to give 10% or even more. There's a certain thing about the tithing subject that I've seldom seen any get a clear overall understanding of and that is this......God established tithing in Israel to be the thing that made that nation work....and function.

I just makes sense in a compassionate society to have a safety net for those who can't provide. Widows, orphans, civil servants whose job it is to serve the people. That is what the Levites were not just priests.....but they carried out civil servant duties.

Now go over to other nations....Gentile nations. They likewise had the things which caused their nations to function EVEN TO THIS DAY. It's called taxation and look what it achieves.....it provides welfare, for the poor and needy and then we have our civil servant class. It's ironic that modern church men lament that some, many or a few won't tithe......but they don't get in fact the person they're making light of HAS been doing that to make their nation function and probably doing so more than a tithing Israelite did.

It's called about a 30% tax on everyone's income. No it's not something they have a sense that they've given for its taken out automatically out of their pay .....it is however providing that which causes their nation to function, just as with Israel. Now there was a slight difference. Levite priests also were doing spiritual work but really the whole tithing thing from top to bottom was the provision to make the nation work and function.

Now there's no mandate in the Apostles Paul's writing to insist that men give that to cause their nations to function. Paul would never have to do that for the government would rightly take care of that. Government would say you're going to pay or taxes or else! LOL.

So Paul on the giving theme.....look tithing was in the law written to Israel as citizens of that country. None of that can rightly apply to any Gentile nations BUT.....remember and keep in mind....God loves a cheerful giver. What do you think you can afford to participate in giving blessings to the Kingdom of God and it's work. Everyone decides that themselves but he made it clear he never made it a law or a percentage thing to be over people's minds or conscience.

I think the best way now is for each one to pray and get a feel of what God is telling one to give. God could (not saying he will) but he could tell one to give something like 40% or their wealth away......way, way, way above just a tithes but they still might have left over well enough to live a comfortable life. (much more of things could be said)

When a Jew does a financial Mitzvah its usually done in a multiple of 18.

 

[101G]

Biblical Wealth, and having it, is an interesting Bible subject.

Paul calls it "filthy lucre" in Titus, but admonishes one of His planted Churches for not giving enough into His ministry.

101G must disagree with you there. it's how ... Y...O...U .. use it. there is nothing wrong with money. "filthy lucre" is when YOU the possessor of it use money in evil ways.

but the bible is clear, Ecclesiastes 10:19 "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."

one more and listen carefully. Ecclesiastes 7:12 "For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it."

now for those who are blessed to have wealth, 1 Timothy 6:17 "Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;" 1 Timothy 6:18 "That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;" 1 Timothy 6:19 "Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life."

101G.