Knowing God through reason...

[praise_yeshua]

A simple exercise of reasoning that might reveal how we truly see God....

If your were God, what would you do differently? If you could change anything, what would you change.

I know we tend to think "Big" concerning the subject but what would YOU want differently. Maybe start with something small....

I'd love to be able to say I wouldn't change anything but my heart tells me otherwise.

I also have learned enough to know that I'm not helpless and that my choices not only affect me, but many many others. More than I probably can imagine at times.

Does anyone care to share what they would change?

I'll go first. I would try to change how kind we are to one another. I could force it....but it wouldn't be real. Kindness demands sincerity.

 

[JoshebB]

A simple exercise of reasoning that might reveal how we truly see God....

If your were God, what would you do differently? If you could change anything, what would you change.

I know we tend to think "Big" concerning the subject but what would YOU want differently. Maybe start with something small....

I'd love to be able to say I wouldn't change anything but my heart tells me otherwise.

I also have learned enough to know that I'm not helpless and that my choices not only affect me, but many many others. More than I probably can imagine at times.

Does anyone care to share what they would change?

I'll go first. I would try to change how kind we are to one another. I could force it....but it wouldn't be real. Kindness demands sincerity.

That's sort of a trick question.

On one hand, were I God I'd flatten Iran, and I'd make every politician tell the truth at least for a week. On the other hand, because I believe God is omnipotently sovereign over everything I understand everything that exists is exactly the way He wants it for some unexplained or not yet fathomed reason so I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's sort of a trick question.

On one hand, were I God I'd flatten Iran, and I'd make every politician tell the truth at least for a week. On the other hand, because I believe God is omnipotently sovereign over everything I understand everything that exists is exactly the way He wants it for some unexplained or not yet fathomed reason so I wouldn't change a thing.

Thank you. I understand your response. I once held the same belief.

To summarize my current position, I believe we all are victims of circumstances to some degree. Knowing that every man shall give an account to God for things we do, we all are culpable to one another in our circumstances.

Also, I don't believe God gets what He wants nor does He need anything. He doesn't need us. He doesn't need anything. However, He desires mankind to know Him and to learn of Him.

Given this, I find myself torn between what I would like and what I have the power to change. I also find myself torn between my inabilities and my desires.

I've said this before but we are all capable of doing anything we desire in our imagination. Yet, our imaginations are often powerless to change circumstances.

This battle that exists in our lives and minds is where I believe God is pleased or not. His mercy is relative to the paltry circumstances of our existence. Innocence can be more than just an excuse. God understands our lack of understanding due to circumstances that are not of our own making. God has charged us with the "keeping" of one another that we might learn why things are the "way they are".

Sovereignty is often used an excuse for inaction in our lives. (Not saying you're doing this. Just historically, I believe theologies/philosophies often do this).

If I could do what I haven't tried to accomplish, then I don't have a reason to rightfully appeal to Sovereignty as the answer to these issues.

Thusly, we reason to know God so we might know ourselves. Knowing ourselves begins with knowing God.

 

[JoshebB]

Thank you. I understand your response. I once held the same belief.

To summarize my current position, I believe we all are victims of circumstances to some degree. Knowing that every man shall give an account to God for things we do, we all are culpable to one another in our circumstances.

Also, I don't believe God gets what He wants nor does He need anything. He doesn't need us. He doesn't need anything. However, He desires mankind to know Him and to learn of Him.

Given this, I find myself torn between what I would like and what I have the power to change. I also find myself torn between my inabilities and my desires.

I've said this before but we are all capable of doing anything we desire in our imagination. Yet, our imaginations are often powerless to change circumstances.

This battle that exists in our lives and minds is where I believe God is pleased or not. His mercy is relative to the paltry circumstances of our existence. Innocence can be more than just an excuse. God understands our lack of understanding due to circumstances that are not of our own making. God has charged us with the "keeping" of one another that we might learn why things are the "way they are".

Sovereignty is often used an excuse for inaction in our lives. (Not saying you're doing this. Just historically, I believe theologies/philosophies often do this).

If I could do what I haven't tried to accomplish, then I don't have a reason to rightfully appeal to Sovereignty as the answer to these issues.

Thusly, we reason to know God so we might know ourselves.

While that rationale has some flaws in it, I do agree...

Knowing ourselves begins with knowing God.

We cannot know who we are apart from knowing Whose we are.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

A simple exercise of reasoning that might reveal how we truly see God....

If your were God, what would you do differently? If you could change anything, what would you change.

I know we tend to think "Big" concerning the subject but what would YOU want differently. Maybe start with something small....

I'd love to be able to say I wouldn't change anything but my heart tells me otherwise.

I also have learned enough to know that I'm not helpless and that my choices not only affect me, but many many others. More than I probably can imagine at times.

Does anyone care to share what they would change?

I'll go first. I would try to change how kind we are to one another. I could force it....but it wouldn't be real. Kindness demands sincerity.

I Would change the design of the spinal column to a better engineered structure that wasn't as susceptible to malfunction and PAIN.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everyone who holds to a belief of God from the vanity of their minds and not understood as revealed in Scripture is "doing things differently" and "changing things."
Whatever understanding of God one has that is not biblical, then THAT is the god they serve and worship.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

A simple exercise of reasoning that might reveal how we truly see God....

If your were God, what would you do differently? If you could change anything, what would you change.

I know we tend to think "Big" concerning the subject but what would YOU want differently. Maybe start with something small....

I'd love to be able to say I wouldn't change anything but my heart tells me otherwise.

I also have learned enough to know that I'm not helpless and that my choices not only affect me, but many many others. More than I probably can imagine at times.

Does anyone care to share what they would change?

I'll go first. I would try to change how kind we are to one another. I could force it....but it wouldn't be real. Kindness demands sincerity.

far better off to have simply said WE would change Nothing . In fact i am so thankful to GOD
FOR WHO HE IS and that HE DOES not change . Every word from warning to promise IS MEAT for our soul .

 

[praise_yeshua]

far better off to have simply said WE would change Nothing . In fact i am so thankful to GOD
FOR WHO HE IS and that HE DOES not change . Every word from warning to promise IS MEAT for our soul .

God is going to change things....

We have His promises that He will.

Our prayers are driven from what we want changed......

So God wants things different. We want things different. Where we agree is an excellent exercise in reasoning...

Prayer changes things. Not that I would ask just anything. What we desire to change is important... This world is mixed with things man has created and what God has created.

 

[civic]

God is going to change things....

We have His promises that He will.

Our prayers are driven from what we want changed......

So God wants things different. We want things different. Where we agree is an excellent exercise in reasoning...

Prayer changes things. Not that I would ask just anything. What we desire to change is important... This world is mixed with things man has created and what God has created.

Yes the new heavens and earth will be better than this one and so will our resurrected bodies better than these ones or adams.


The new and improved Version 2.0 will be better than the original version 1.0

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

God is going to change things....

We have His promises that He will.

Our prayers are driven from what we want changed......

So God wants things different. We want things different. Where we agree is an excellent exercise in reasoning...

Prayer changes things. Not that I would ask just anything. What we desire to change is important... This world is mixed with things man has created and what God has created.

GOD changes things . YET HE HIMSELF changes not . His truth can change the heart of man
YET HIS TRUTH ITSELF changes not .
In other words i have heard far too many saying and even believing things like GOD HAS CHANGED
As they lean on teachings contrary TO HIM . THEY holler GOD is gonna do a new thing
AND YET , now reader take heed , and YET this new thing CONTRADICTS HIS WAY , HIS TRUTH .
YOU aint being accused , i am just reminding us . PS , I DONT HEED A WORD ONE outta men
that try and come and omit and twist THE TRUTH of GOD and use the excuse HEY we living in differenttimes now
what they wrote to the church and or certain things JESUS taught no longer apply to us . I TELL YA I WONT HEED A WORD ONE
outta they mouth of any who tries to even do such a thing . JUST a friendly reminder , not an accusation
I SURE HOPE it helps remind us all as well .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Yes the new heavens and earth will be better than this one and so will our resurrected bodies better than these ones or adams.


The new and improved Version 2.0 will be better than the original version 1.0

And i must add to this real quickly , THOSE WHO DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST and reject the need to BELEIVE ON HIM
well they wont be in those lovey new heavens and earth .
THOSE WHO DENY JESUS IS THE CHRIST and DENY HIS TEACHINGS
DENY GOD HIMSELF . yes , i know that what i wrote might actually startle some
as they so love to believe that somehow these other CHRIST DENYING religoins serve the same GOD we do .
THAT in fact JESUS WAS NOT JUST SOME MERE MAN , A GOOD PROPHET
HE WAS FAR MORE THAN ALL THAT . BEFORE ABRAHAM was , I AM .
I AM alpha and omega the first and the last . IF ONE DENIES CHRIST , BELEIVE ME , THEY DO DENY GOD .
I MEAN they actually call GOD A LIAR . YES i said a liar but john wrote it first .
HE who beleives NOT , BELIEVES NOT , the testimony that GOD gave of the SON
is not serving GOD some other way , NO SIR , THEY CALLIG THE GOD , YES THE GOD a FAT LIAR . JOHN was right
INTERFIATH IS DEAD WRONG .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Yes the new heavens and earth will be better than this one and so will our resurrected bodies better than these ones or adams.


The new and improved Version 2.0 will be better than the original version 1.0

I love what JESUS also told the jews . Reminding them about abraham
You see when GOD spoke to abraham HE BELEIVED GOD .
Pretty darn scary that when JESUS SPOKE they sure seemed not to BELEIVE HIS WORDS .
AND YET WHO was speaking to them . WELL THIS DID NOT DO ABRAHAM now DID HE .
Abraham BELEIVED GOD
and i am very very serious when i say IF JESUS SAID IT , GOD SAID IT . yet why wont folks beleive
MANY cliam to BELIEVE IN GOD
i find that so odd though when they refuse to BELIEVE ON and BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
Cause if one denies HIM , MAN they JUST DENIED GOD . a fact many might not want to beleive
BUT ITS A FACT ALL WILL KNOW ON THE DAY OF THE LORD . however on that day the goats will not like what they get told .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Yes the new heavens and earth will be better than this one and so will our resurrected bodies better than these ones or adams.


The new and improved Version 2.0 will be better than the original version 1.0

Go ye into all nations ..............................................................

 

[praise_yeshua]

GOD changes things . YET HE HIMSELF changes not . His truth can change the heart of man
YET HIS TRUTH ITSELF changes not .
In other words i have heard far too many saying and even believing things like GOD HAS CHANGED
As they lean on teachings contrary TO HIM . THEY holler GOD is gonna do a new thing
AND YET , now reader take heed , and YET this new thing CONTRADICTS HIS WAY , HIS TRUTH .
YOU aint being accused , i am just reminding us . PS , I DONT HEED A WORD ONE outta men
that try and come and omit and twist THE TRUTH of GOD and use the excuse HEY we living in differenttimes now
what they wrote to the church and or certain things JESUS taught no longer apply to us . I TELL YA I WONT HEED A WORD ONE
outta they mouth of any who tries to even do such a thing . JUST a friendly reminder , not an accusation
I SURE HOPE it helps remind us all as well .

God does change. He changes His mind. The proof of this is found throughout the Scriptures. None so evident as how God changes His mind about sinners when He saves them.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Did God change His mind about you?

What doesn't change is God's Character/Nature.

Did you know that God became flesh and dwelt among us?

 

[civic]

God does change. He changes His mind. The proof of this is found throughout the Scriptures. None so evident as how God changes His mind about sinners when He saves them.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Did God change His mind about you?

What doesn't change is God's Character/Nature.

Did you know that God became flesh and dwelt among us?

yes a distinction with a difference.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

God does change. He changes His mind. The proof of this is found throughout the Scriptures. None so evident as how God changes His mind about sinners when He saves them.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Did God change His mind about you?

What doesn't change is God's Character/Nature.

Did you know that God became flesh and dwelt among us?

actually He does not change . HE has long said IF YE WILL REPENT then i will repent of ........
SO we see HE is only DOING exactly as HE already said HE would . HE does not change .

 

[civic]

actually He does not change . HE has long said IF YE WILL REPENT then i will repent of ........
SO we see HE is only DOING exactly as HE already said HE would . HE does not change .

here is a good discussion on the topic

Thread 'Open Panel Discussion - Open Theism'

Jan 2, 2024

Open Theism
Like those in the Arminian-Wesleyan camp, open theists conceive of predestination as corporate rather than individual; but unlike those in the Arminian-Wesleyan camp, open theists do not base corporate predestination on God’s foreknowledge of future contingents. Corporate election maintains that God does not choose which individuals He will save before the foundation of the world, but God chooses the church as a whole. Hence God chose before the world’s creation that a group of people would be found by God through faith in Christ, namely, the...

• Begotten
• Replies: 152
• Forum: Open Theism

• 

 

[praise_yeshua]

actually He does not change . HE has long said IF YE WILL REPENT then i will repent of ........
SO we see HE is only DOING exactly as HE already said HE would . HE does not change .

Go back a little further. What before that? Reason....

I know you want to believe what you've been taught. I did too. I stopped accepting the arguments of others as evidence and made my own. God expects such from all of us. Just "repeating" what you've been told without any thoughts to the contrary is being a slave to men....

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

God doesn't care if you question what men say about Him. He prefers it that way...

So. Back to God forgiving you?

Were you once at enmity with God? God actually said He will forget. He has promised to forget. God changes when HE FORGETS.

What you're describing is the Eternal nature of God. What He done for others, He will do for you. It is contrary to God's nature to act differently from one human being to another. It is a matter of Divine Character to do otherwise.

 

[civic]

Go back a little further. What before that? Reason....

I know you want to believe what you've been taught. I did too. I stopped accepting the arguments of others as evidence and made my own. God expects such from all of us. Just "repeating" what you've been told without any thoughts to the contrary is being a slave to men....

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

God doesn't care if you question what men say about Him. He prefers it that way...

So. Back to God forgiving you?

Were you once at enmity with God? God actually said He will forget. He has promised to forget. God changes when HE FORGETS.

What you're describing is the Eternal nature of God. What He done for others, He will do for you. It is contrary to God's nature to act differently from one human being to another. It is a matter of Divine Character to do otherwise.

probably the most difficult thing I did which began my journey out from calvinism is when I began to question things I was taught assuming they were the gospel truth no ifs ands or buts about them. They were as we like to say written in stone. But once I discovered something I believed and I was taught was true and began to examine it from an objective lens and found it to be false I was able to do that with many other things I assumed were true about God and not actually found to be true in scripture. That took me down a road that I'm still traveling on questioning things like a Good Berean should do. It was very freeing and I was able to see God differently than I had before and He became more Glorious to me than He was before. The study of God ( Theology ) is the greatest pursuit in life, to know Him personally, His Good name, character, nature and how He interacts with man. The Pursuit of God continues to be a daily motivator in my daily life and will remain that way until I take my last breath in this life. I'm always a student , always learning and being open minded to correction and that what I believe needs to be examined through scripture. If something appears to be a contradiction I know its not but is only my human understanding that appears to see a contradiction. There is perfect unity and harmony when it come to Gods nature/character. He is the same in the Old and He is in the New testament. Sometimes people conflate His character with His attributes and there is a difference with His primary attributes/character within His own Being as Triune vs His interaction with fallen mankind. But most people do not want to travel down this road in fear they might be wrong. .

This was a stumbling block for the old group on the old forum I left and stuck in their ways and concepts of God they could not bet past what they were incorrectly taught and to examine those claims with an open mind.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Go back a little further. What before that? Reason....

I know you want to believe what you've been taught. I did too. I stopped accepting the arguments of others as evidence and made my own. God expects such from all of us. Just "repeating" what you've been told without any thoughts to the contrary is being a slave to men....

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

God doesn't care if you question what men say about Him. He prefers it that way...

So. Back to God forgiving you?

Were you once at enmity with God? God actually said He will forget. He has promised to forget. God changes when HE FORGETS.

What you're describing is the Eternal nature of God. What He done for others, He will do for you. It is contrary to God's nature to act differently from one human being to another. It is a matter of Divine Character to do otherwise.

God dont change , HIS nature dont change .
Next thing you will be saying is SINCE GODS nature is love
Which i know this generation is doing right now , that means NONE OF THE KIDDOS
gonna face the lake of fire .
What i mean to say is
Have you bought into the lie yet . i hope not . i dont know if you have
but allow me to explain it .
IF we as parents could never send our kiddos to a lake of fire
HOW can GOD send anyone . I SURE HOPE you aint bought that lie .
besides , for the many who end up in the hottest lake known to man
YOU CAN BET GOD AINT TO BLAME . HE DID what had to be done
ITS MEN . the children sure seem to love sin , SO THEY WONT come to the RIGHT VERSION OF JESUS , OF GOD .