Johann
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It would seem you have a thorough grasp on the Scriptures.Some of it is.
Not all of it, though.
I have yet to find a single error in his theologyIt would seem you have a thorough grasp on the Scriptures.
Can you elaborate a bit on how you see election/selection/choice?
Since I don't believe Calvin is correct on this doctrine.
Thanks brother.
J.
It would seem you have a thorough grasp on the Scriptures.
Can you elaborate a bit on how you see election/selection/choice?
I have yet to find a single error in his theology![]()
No I totally disagree with you @civic.I have yet to find a single error in his theology![]()
I see you resisting Him too because of doctrinal beliefs from the dark ages and reformation era. This works both ways don’t you know ?I promise you I have sought God in ways and extents you have and would minimize.
I also promise you that you have resisted the Holy Spirit in some serious matters, and I urge you to seek him regarding that before it's too late.
Perfection is not something I ever claimed or promised, but I don't post half-haphazardly, I give it my all.
It was tongue in cheek or like a thread that was started a saying it was only a “ parody “.No I totally disagree with you @civic.
Remember=we have babes in Christ here and Calvin and his Institudes is not helping.
Maybe you are lighthearted-but in the Q&A with RC. Sprould and James White I did not appreciate their jokes on peoples sincere questions-especially on the doctrine of election.
I hope this Forum is not going to be about Calvin and his teachings.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co_1:22-25; Joh_17:3; Gal_3:1, Gal_6:14; Php_3:8-10
Gal 6:14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Yes?
Johann.
Brother-what you have just wrote is making absolute sense-and I thank you for this.Here's the way I see it, Johann. I'm afraid you may not be entirely satisfied with my answer, as I do believe the Scripture leaves some degree of mystery in regards to such things, but this is where I have come to.
The Bible gives us certain propositions, but we don't like how they seem incompatible, and it bothers us. We are constantly gravitating towards trying to understand how things harmonize to feeling emotionally and intellectually justified in our beliefs.
I accept the following statements as Biblical:
1. God loves every human being equally, died for their sins, wants the best for them and made them for heaven.
2. Not every human being receives the same amount of grace, the principle of delegation produces the principle of victimization.
3. God clearly states he chooses some particular people for callings and for salvation, which renders them more grace.
4. No one is forced to follow God, free will is sacred to God, and all grace is resistible in Scripture.
Now, for many people, they don't think those points logically harmonize, and so they reject them on the principle of human reasoning and logic. Like many people reject the trinity, or reject vicarious atonement, or reject omniscience, or reject a sin nature as unjust—it is always the case that the reasons people reject true doctrines is trusting in their own intellect while acting on their offended and prideful desires against the truth.
I accept a mystical predestination of specific individuals, as the Bible does clearly teach, but not on the basis of God loving them more, nor on the basis of God rejecting their free will, as everyone must make their calling and election sure. Those specially elect for some calling can bring this grace to others around them who, for whatever mysterious reasons in the divine counsel, were not afforded the same graces.
I do believe the Holy Spirit is attempting to bring preceding grace to every person, but not in a manner that in universally unhindered, as the Spirit uses channels and means to go through, as Scripture explains to us in many places. This is why intercession, for example, can make a real difference, because although a person may have sufficient grace to theoretically be saved, they may not necessarily be maximally graced.
It can feel confusing when we see Calvinistic type texts yet know it cannot mean exactly what they say it means, for this impugns God's character—however, God does allow offensive things to us, because of our sin nature, and this is in fact why Calvinism was birthed, to resolve offense at what God has allowed, and find a selfish security in knowing that the unsaved don't matter and the saved can't ever be lost—both false.
I know I have received a grace that many, many others have not—but I also know it makes me responsible to use and bring that grace to others less fortunate. There is no one, in the world, that I believe Christ did not potentially die for, or who would be banned from becoming elect—yet without a doubt God has implemented a system that does not seem good, just, loving or merciful to me, in allowing victims for a reason I can't figure out, or don't find acceptable.
I can write almost endlessly on such things, and it already is long for most people, but it's super hard to condense such nuance, and the weight of how important these matters are to us, and how they affect us. I believe all false doctrines stem from wrong motivations and a distaste for some way God has chosen to regulate the world, a desire to remake him in our own image, and resolve our offenses at his ways.
I have an old post from Carm on this very topic, and I will attempt to find it in my archives and repost it here.
God bless.
Brother-my eternal life and destination is at stake here and don't appreciate lighthearted humor-no offense.It was tongue in cheek or like a thread that was started a saying it was only a “ parody “.![]()
I understand and as an FYI I really like diz even though we disagree on PSA , Hypostatic Union and Kenosis just to name the big 3.Brother-my eternal life and destination is at stake here and don't appreciate lighthearted humor-no offense.
I live in isolation, not by choice-and give it my all-for the glory of my Lord and great God, Jesus Christ.
I find @dizerner helpful and learn much from him-that's what I am here for, to unlearn the leaven and believe the fact that Jesus did not die for you, Paul and the others, but for me also.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”
-or some follow Calvin, Arius etc.
TO be honest with you-my heart sank when I notice Calvin and his teachings is prominent on all Christian Forums.
Don't take it personally.
Johann.
I believe the Lord led me to Dr. Utley-fallible as he is-to give me the big picture and a renewed impetus and pathos to dive deeper into Scriptures.I understand and as an FYI I really like diz even though we disagree on PSA , Hypostatic Union and Kenosis just to name the big 3.
Awesome thanks for sharing .I believe the Lord led me to Dr. Utley-fallible as he is-to give me the big picture and a renewed impetus and pathos to dive deeper into Scriptures.
For me, just philosophising without Scripture references is not helping me at all.
I listen daily to his videos as well as Mike Winger-but must admit -don't appreciate Mike's "feminime gestures and off timing jokes"
And for me-going to Church on a Sunday-having "fellowship with the saints" without putting Scriptures into practice-helping the poor and the needy-is no Church at all.
I come from a ministry the same as David Wilkerson-outreach and have met Nicky Cruz in person.
But enough of my rambling.
Shalom
Johann.
Rom 9 is overwhelmingly about election. The election of the Cross was preordained/purposed by God and as such God determined events and people which would allow the Cross to take place.
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Thanks for the compliment-but I prefer plain English.Rom 9 is overwhelmingly about election. The election of the Cross was preordained/purposed by God and as such God determined events and people which would allow the Cross to take place.
For us personally now in NT times, since Christ is the Elect One, we therefore inherit election when are positioned "in Christ" by belief "in Christ". Every believer is blessed with preordained good works aligned with their God-given talents. You have a rare talent for languages and there's a dire need to properly contextualize Hebrew and Greek biblical text. I see that possibly as at least one of God's preordained good works that He has for you.