His People He foreknew !

[brightfame52]

Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

Now who are this people God foreknew ? Its all His People He foreknew in Christ, those Chosen in Him before the world began, whether jews or gentiles. Jesus their redeemer was foreknew for them specifically as their redeemer 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The word foreordained proginōskō is the same word for foreknew in Rom 11:2

These people God chose in union with Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The prep in denotes "inclusion within"

So His People He foreknew are those who He chose in Him who was the foreknew, foreordained one, their redeemer who would be in time manifested for them.

Those Whom God foreknew, His People, had a Eternal Union with Christ, by His own doing !

 

[Jim]

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The word foreordained proginōskō is the same word for foreknew in Rom 11:2

But the word foreordained in verse 20 is a terrible translation of the Greek word proginosko. It does not mean foreordain. It means foreknow, i.e., to know beforehand. Those are not the same thing at all. Once again, the KJV does it badly.

 

[civic]

But the word foreordained in verse 20 is a terrible translation of the Greek word proginosko. It does not mean foreordain. It means foreknow, i.e., to know beforehand. Those are not the same thing at all. Once again, the KJV does it badly.

Yep

 

[brightfame52]

But the word foreordained in verse 20 is a terrible translation of the Greek word proginosko. It does not mean foreordain. It means foreknow, i.e., to know beforehand. Those are not the same thing at all. Once again, the KJV does it badly.

Denial of truth

 

[Jim]

Denial of truth

Yes, you engage in that with your Calvinism a lot. The Greek word for preordain is προορίζω [proorizō] which is from the two Greek words πρό [pro] and ὁρίζω [horizō]. No one would confuse the two words foreknow and preordain. They are two different words. They have two separate meanings. Once again, the KJV has introduced a wrong and very bad translation into the English text. That is simply fact. That is simply truth.

 

[Presby02]

But the word foreordained in verse 20 is a terrible translation of the Greek word proginosko. It does not mean foreordain. It means foreknow, i.e., to know beforehand. Those are not the same thing at all. Once again, the KJV does it badly.

Depends on if its a noun or a verb.

 

[Jim]

Depends on if its a noun or a verb.

I don't think so. To foreknow does not mean to foreordain or to predestinate. And foreknowledge is not the same thing as predestination. If you think otherwise, please explain.

 

[Presby02]

I don't think so. To foreknow does not mean to foreordain or to predestinate. And foreknowledge is not the same thing as predestination. If you think otherwise, please explain.

I think so. It can be a verb or a noun. Such as in Romans 8

I would simply say God foreknows what He has oredestined to occur. He is omniscient.

 

[Jim]

I think so. It can be a verb or a noun. Such as in Romans 8

I would simply say God foreknows what He has oredestined to occur. He is omniscient.

God knows everything past, present and future. So obviously He knows what He has predestined. But He also knows what He has not predestined. God's omniscience of the future is called His foreknowledge. That is completely independent of His predestination.

 

[Presby02]

God knows everything past, present and future. So obviously He knows what He has predestined. But He also knows what He has not predestined. God's omniscience of the future is called His foreknowledge. That is completely independent of His predestination.

What hasnt He predestined?

 

[brightfame52]

His People He foreknew were appointed heirs in Him and with Him; and we were loved as personally considered in Him. He was the comprehending Head in whom were embraced all the members.

Christ as the Head of Election, was appointed Head heir of all things Heb 1:2

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

By Eternal Union with Christ, the foreknown ones were Co Heirs with Christ having been Chosen in Him Rom 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs[Union] with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Remember these[joint-heirs with Christ] are the same ones Paul says a few verses later Rom 8:28-29

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So His People He foreknew Rom 11:2 were Joint Heirs with Christ Rom 8:17 and this before the foundation, For Christ made the Worlds, and He was their Head then Col 1:17-18

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Prov 8:22

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

 

[Jim]

What hasnt He predestined?

Oh my oh my! You are a determinist. No sense in having a discussion with you on this topic. The simple truth is that most of what human beings do hasn't been predestined by God; in fact, almost nothing that human beings do has been predestined by God even though He knows absolutely everything that human beings have done and will do.

 

[Presby02]

Oh my oh my! You are a determinist. No sense in having a discussion with you on this topic. The simple truth is that most of what human beings do hasn't been predestined by God; in fact, almost nothing that human beings do has been predestined by God even though He knows absolutely everything that human beings have done and will do.

I am a determinist. True.

Simple truth? Because you say it or can you demonstrate it?

 

[Jim]

I am a determinist. True.

Simple truth? Because you say it or can you demonstrate it?

Did God predestine you to sin? If so then he is the creator of sin. But that is not possible.

 

[Presby02]

Did God predestine you to sin? If so then he is the creator of sin. But that is not possible.

Yup, unless your going to say God was unaware sin would enter the world. Was the tree, serpent, the garden and Eve all for devoration or did He actually determined what occurred?

 

[Jim]

Yup, unless your going to say God was unaware sin would enter the world. Was the tree, serpent, the garden and Eve all for devoration or did He actually determined what occurred?

Sad, truly sad. You really need to give some consideration to who God is. There are any number of sources out there that present God, who He is, and what are His attributes. If God is the creator, the generator, the cause of sin, then how is He different from Satan. If He is the creator, the generator, the cause of lies, then is what He tells us in the Bible lies?

 

[Jim]

I am a determinist. True.

Simple truth? Because you say it or can you demonstrate it?

Because all you have to do is look around you and see things that you know God despises and hence cannot have predetermined that it should be.

 

[Presby02]

Sad, truly sad. You really need to give some consideration to who God is. There are any number of sources out there that present God, who He is, and what are His attributes. If God is the creator, the generator, the cause of sin, then how is He different from Satan. If He is the creator, the generator, the cause of lies, then is what He tells us in the Bible lies?

"If God is the creator"? Did God know sin would exist prior to creation? Did He create the necessary conditions for sin to enter the world? Did He arrange things in a certain way so sin would enter the world? Such as the garden, the serpent, Eve and the forbidden fruit? Knowing full well what woukd happen. God is omniscient remember?

 

[Presby02]

Because all you have to do is look around you and see things that you know God despises and hence cannot have predetermined that it should be.

God can despise something, such as murder, yet use it for His purposes. Such as the murder of His own Son. Something He planned and determined to occur.

 

[Jim]

God can despise something, such as murder, yet use it for His purposes. Such as the murder of His own Son. Something He planned and determined to occur.

That is an affront to God. God is certainly capable of using what we do, whether good or bad, to His own purposes. However, that does not mean that He condones or predetermines the bad things that we do.