Calvinist Clock Reading

[Rockson]

If I might tell a story. My wife when she was a little girl had her mother once ask her, "What time is it?" She forgot though that she was too young a child to understand how to read a clock. . She said boldly and with all sincerity, "Mommy it's 4 o'clock now it's 5...now it's 6!"

What she was doing was looking at the second hand of the clock and she was referring to a 15 second period. Yes the second hand had a part in the process but the second hand has to be interpreted in relation to the other hands of the clock to properly read it correctly. In other words it wasn't 4 o'clock, 5 or 6 the time was properly understood by which the other hands were doing.

Sorry and no offence but I consider that Calvinists are like this way. They're right in saying, "God is sovereign" and to be bold about it....no problem with that. But that's certainly not the end and Be all of how to read a clock or to understand God's way. Looking at only sovereignty like looking at the second hand enlarges God's state of being this outside of his character which would be like the other larger hands of the clock.

In other words God is sovereign but such doesn't mean he micro manages everything. We need to properly read of God's character traits to properly categorize what the second hand means. So when a Calvinist as well says, "We believe in God's sovereignty" somehow implying that others just don't that comes across to me like one saying the time is 4, 5 or 6! I don't deny they're very sincere and earnest but none the less sadly they've missed it.

Those who don't believe in sovereignty that being the way that Calvinists do STILL BELIEVE the second hand is a valuable part of the full council of God's knowledge. They believe in the sovereignty of God but keep it properly understood by insisting the other hands are crucial in not being too extreme in what it has to mean. I'd suggest that's what one calls balance.

 

[civic]

Here is something to wrap your head around. Before creation God was not Sovereign since there was nothing to rule over. He was sovereign of Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sovereignty is an attribute relating to creation, like wrath, justice, mercy and other attribute that relate to creation and the fall.

 

[Exeter]

Here is something to wrap your head around. Before creation God was not Sovereign since there was nothing to rule over. He was sovereign of Himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sovereignty is an attribute relating to creation, like wrath, justice, mercy and other attribute that relate to creation and the fall.

There were Angels in heaven before this Universe began its existence.

 

[civic]

There were Angels in heaven before this Universe began its existence.

Do you have a scripture saying they existed prior to the 6 days of creation ?

 

[Exeter]

Do you have a scripture saying they existed prior to the 6 days of creation ?

Yes.

Job 38:1-7 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, (2) Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? (3) Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. (4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? (6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (angels) shouted for joy?


The topic is an oldie, but a goodie.

 

[civic]

Yes.

Job 38:1-7 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, (2) Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? (3) Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. (4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? (6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (angels) shouted for joy?


The topic is an oldie, but a goodie.

they were created when the heavens/stars were created. They saw the foundation of the earth being created. The heavens were created before the earth. So they did not exist before creation, there was only God prior to the 6 days of creation with no angels.

We know everything in existence was created in those 6 days and that before those 6 days only God existed. Here we read they were created in that time frame by Christ.

for by Him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers - all things have been created through Him and for Him (Colossians 1:16) The ruler/powers refer to the angels.