An Article on free will

Yes, I indicated that verse 3 and verse 5 are essentially saying the same thing. But I did not say, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God". Not only did I not say it, I don't even believe it.

So, you lied. And quite frankly I have come to expect that of you. That seems to be an MO for you.

I interpret your words in order to arrive at a conclusion, and this conclusion faithfully depicts your words, and I do this by God working my will (Philippians 2:13) for God's glory.

You interpret Jesus Christ's words in order to arrive at a conclusion, and your conclusion unfaithfully depicts Jesus Christ's words, and you do this by your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) for man's glory.

And, the following proves both these premises since a key component of your Free-willian Philosophy is your foundation of "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must give salvation to me".

The wonderful exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus with context follows. The true Lord Jesus declares that a person cannot righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God without God birthing the person anew in the exchange:
Speaker Holy Scripture Summary
Nicodemus: "Rabbi, we see that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” (John 3:2) I perceive that God sent you, Teacher, for the signs you do are because God is with you!
Lord Jesus: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3) One perceives Me because of the exclusive work of God inside of such a one
Nicodemus: "How can someone be born when they are old?" "Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!" (John 3:4) How can I enter into this communion with God without me working in some way? Please help me understand.
Lord Jesus: Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8) One enters into communion with God because of the Holy Spirit. One knows not when nor how nor why the Holy Spirit works in this person here or that person there.

As the Holy Spirit makes abundantly clear, the context of John 3:2-3 is "see" as in "perceive", and the context of John 3:4-8 is "enter" as in "ingress".

Your modus operandi is to adulterate the Word of God because you call Lord Jesus your liar with your 'The "see" in verse 3 and the enter in verse 5 both speak of the same thing' (proof post #6,345) words there, Jim, which results in your traditions of men on the left side below while the righteous side expresses divine right:
The traditions of men The Holy Word of God
Truly, truly, I say to you, before one is born again he can see the Kingdom of God[
(Jim 3:3)
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3)

Jim, you cannot see King Jesus of the Kingdom of God unless you are born of God.

In other words, you cannot perceive Lord Jesus unless God causes you to perceive Lord Jesus Christ, but your Free-willian Philosophy foundation "apart from Christ, I chose Christ so Christ must give salvation to me" denies this Truth (John 14:6).

Your explanation results in you denying the Word of God.

Your words have implications. You are quite distressed about the results of your words. Deny your own words, and receive the unadulterated Word of God!

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE FATHER OF US CHILDREN OF GOD AND CREATOR OF ALL CREATION!!!
 
If you are asking whether a person free-will chooses Jesus Christ, then the the following addresses your inquiry.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
Such a smorgasbord of words and verses.

Such a blatherskite with no concept of what the meaning of free-will is.

Those lost sheep that Jesus was sent for were not under the control of God, nor were they predestined to be .

Not all of them followed after Jesus when he came to earth. Those who did not had their own free will to accept what was being taught
or to reject it.

But when he first was sent to earth... with his Jewish lineage and living among his Jewish family, and choosing his Jewish disciples, and flatly stating to that one woman who had heard him and believed in him for the healing of her daughter.... He said, in Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That Canaanite woman was the first example of true faith having come from her own freewill... having heard Jesus... unless you caount before He came Rahab, and possibly Ruth. (Both of whom came to their beliefs on their own)

Jesus said he was sent only to. Which means not for her, you or me... at that time. He was trying to reach the lost of God's chosen.
Who by their own choice were following a different path.

I dont know how to make it so you will understand.

To me “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny therefore we have free will.

The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose.

That being said our free will does not mean that mankind can do anything he pleases. Our choices are limited to what is in keeping with our nature. If we want to fly, we need a plane or similar because, unlike birds, we were not made with the ability to just take off.

YOU SAY.... CORRECT ME IF i AM WRONG IN THIS... A man cannot choose to make himself righteous because his... SIN... nature prevents him from from making a choice for God. We ARE told in Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,. So, free will is limited by nature.
(Paraphrasing what I think you mean)

Now, understand this. This limitation in free will does not mitigate our accountability. The Bible is clear that we not only have the ability to choose, we also have the responsibility to choose wisely. Even in the Old Testament, God may have chosen the nation Israel, but individuals within that nation still bore an obligation to choose obedience to God.

Obligation to choose = free will

Romans 11 certainly shows that there was free will when it took God to ... well, read it for yourself.

Chapter 11

1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

3"Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."

4But what is God 's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (free will)

5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

8as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear,down to this very day."

9And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever."

IOW They, whom God chose had to be blocked lest their free will would lead them to Him
I am truly sorry you cannot see the joint workings of free will and God's sovereignty.
God's sovereignty means that God is in control of everything and has a plan for all events, while man's responsibility refers to the moral choices individuals make and their accountability for those choices. These concepts coexist in Christian theology, suggesting that even though God orchestrates all things, humans are still responsible for their actions.

I could go on and on.

I could tell you of how I came to believe as a young child....

But you are quite set in your ways and thoughts and goals of proving that only you know the truth.

Be blessed.
 
The evidence against your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) is overwhelming you, civic.

The Apostle John enjoins us Christians "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

God causes me to test your spirit based upon the content in your many writings in this thread.

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
  • if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
  • if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
  • The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.
So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you demand your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.

King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you demand your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):
And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.​
(Mark 7:34-35)​
But you do not believe Christ does the wonders that He does, instead, you believe you open your own self-willed ears (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Lord Jesus Christ commands us Christians to love one another with "as you might desire that men should do to you, so also you do to them, for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12), but you issue your free-willian ANTICHRIST SELFISH COMMAND TO NOT LOVE NOR SERVE OTHERS as recorded in post #6,298.

The blessed filling of the Holy Spirit occurs before Pentecost with "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:41), yet your anti-truth ABSENCE OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE PENTECOST is your ungodly preaching as recorded in
post #5,718.

You can find where God caused me to proclaim that “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) includes all Christ's disciples in all time with Christ's wonderful words of "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37) in post #6,344 in this thread.

You are one of the false prophets who have gone out into the world"l (1 John 4:1) as proven by your own testimony recorded above.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE OUR CHRISTIAN'S LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!
just as I thought you have no clue and have never studied the topic, just more repeating the same ole stuff.
 
Such a smorgasbord of words and verses.

Such a blatherskite with no concept of what the meaning of free-will is.

Those lost sheep that Jesus was sent for were not under the control of God, nor were they predestined to be .

Not all of them followed after Jesus when he came to earth. Those who did not had their own free will to accept what was being taught
or to reject it.

But when he first was sent to earth... with his Jewish lineage and living among his Jewish family, and choosing his Jewish disciples, and flatly stating to that one woman who had heard him and believed in him for the healing of her daughter.... He said, in Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That Canaanite woman was the first example of true faith having come from her own freewill... having heard Jesus... unless you caount before He came Rahab, and possibly Ruth. (Both of whom came to their beliefs on their own)

Jesus said he was sent only to. Which means not for her, you or me... at that time. He was trying to reach the lost of God's chosen.
Who by their own choice were following a different path.

I dont know how to make it so you will understand.

To me “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny therefore we have free will.

The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose.

That being said our free will does not mean that mankind can do anything he pleases. Our choices are limited to what is in keeping with our nature. If we want to fly, we need a plane or similar because, unlike birds, we were not made with the ability to just take off.

YOU SAY.... CORRECT ME IF i AM WRONG IN THIS... A man cannot choose to make himself righteous because his... SIN... nature prevents him from from making a choice for God. We ARE told in Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,. So, free will is limited by nature.
(Paraphrasing what I think you mean)

Now, understand this. This limitation in free will does not mitigate our accountability. The Bible is clear that we not only have the ability to choose, we also have the responsibility to choose wisely. Even in the Old Testament, God may have chosen the nation Israel, but individuals within that nation still bore an obligation to choose obedience to God.

Obligation to choose = free will

Romans 11 certainly shows that there was free will when it took God to ... well, read it for yourself.


Chapter 11

1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

3"Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."

4But what is God 's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (free will)

5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

8as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear,down to this very day."

9And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever."

IOW They, whom God chose had to be blocked lest their free will would lead them to Him
I am truly sorry you cannot see the joint workings of free will and God's sovereignty.
God's sovereignty means that God is in control of everything and has a plan for all events, while man's responsibility refers to the moral choices individuals make and their accountability for those choices. These concepts coexist in Christian theology, suggesting that even though God orchestrates all things, humans are still responsible for their actions.

I could go on and on.

I could tell you of how I came to believe as a young child....

But you are quite set in your ways and thoughts and goals of proving that only you know the truth.

Be blessed.
like burger king order it your way , have it your way to your own liking, no standard- hamburger theology. :)

are you old enough to remember the hamburgular :ROFLMAO:

 
The evidence against your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) is overwhelming you, civic.

The Apostle John enjoins us Christians "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

God causes me to test your spirit based upon the content in your many writings in this thread.

Lord Jesus Christ's atonement always succeeds! But, you demand your CHRIST'S FAILURE ATONEMENT as recorded in post #3,926 of this thread. According to your Free-willian Philosophy Christ's atonement applies to all people everywhere in all time, and the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
  • if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
  • if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
  • The conclusion: Christ's atonement succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ's atonement failed in saving Nancy of the world.
So, you free-willians believe in failure atonement.

The Grace of God always succeeds! But, you demand your EARNABLY RESISTIBLE GRACE OF GOD deception as recorded in post #5,496 of this thread.

King Jesus of the Kingdom of God exclusively controls admission into the Kingdom of God for the Glory of God! But you demand your free-willian UnBiblical Order of Salvation as recorded in post #2,495 of this thread. The loving Christ of us Christians opens our ears to hear the Word of God in Truth (John 14:6):
And looking up to heaven, He sighed deeply and said to him, "Ephphatha!" (which means, "Be opened!"). Immediately the man’s ears were opened and his tongue was released, and he began to speak plainly.​
(Mark 7:34-35)​
But you do not believe Christ does the wonders that He does, instead, you believe you open your own self-willed ears (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Lord Jesus Christ commands us Christians to love one another with "as you might desire that men should do to you, so also you do to them, for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12), but you issue your free-willian ANTICHRIST SELFISH COMMAND TO NOT LOVE NOR SERVE OTHERS as recorded in post #6,298.

The blessed filling of the Holy Spirit occurs before Pentecost with "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 1:41), yet your anti-truth ABSENCE OF THE INDWELLING HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE PENTECOST is your ungodly preaching as recorded in
post #5,718.

You can find where God caused me to proclaim that “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) includes all Christ's disciples in all time with Christ's wonderful words of "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37) in post #6,344 in this thread.

You are one of the false prophets who have gone out into the world"l (1 John 4:1) as proven by your own testimony recorded above.

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE OUR CHRISTIAN'S LIVING GOD, JESUS CHRIST!!!
Here I will give you a free bible lesson this morning on the topic.

Do you know the real Jesus from a fake ?

How to test the spirits as John taught us below.

1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

We are warned not only from Jesus but Peter,Paul and John about false teachers that would arise among the flock of God. Here in this most important passage the apostle John lays out for us a way to know for sure if a “prophet or teacher” is of God or the spirit of antichrist. Remember there are only one of 2 spirits that any message being communicated about Jesus can be from, the first is the Spirit of God and the other is the spirit of antichrist. Believe it or not the apostle John gives us the tests to prove whether one speaks by the Spirit of God or antichrist regarding the person of Jesus. We need to ask ourselves what does it actually mean to confess Jesus has come in the flesh? This becomes the litmus test for the Christian or we can call it the lie detector test. We can hook someone up to the polygraph machine on this one and detect the truth from a lie, the Spirit of God verse the spirit of antichrist. Did you in order to spot a counterfeit, the agents in banks are not trained by studying fake $100 bills but the real ones? It is only in knowing the genuine articles that the fakes are easily spotted. Such is the case with the bible. Unless you know it, you will accept a fake and believe it is real. John lets us know in his epistle how to spot a counterfeit.

To confess- NT:3670

1. homologeo (‎o(mologe/w‎, NT:3670), lit., "to speak the same thing" (homos, "same," lego, "to speak"), "to assent, accord, agree with," denotes, (a) "to confess, declare, admit,"

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

To confess means to agree with, say the same thing or to admit what has been declared about Christ. What John is telling his readers is that they must agree with him what has been declared about Jesus. When we look at John writings we see that The Word was God and the Word became(a coming with an abiding effect)flesh. This is fundamental to the Christian faith the Incarnation. God became(permanently) man and dwelt among us. John makes that clear when he says that Jesus has come in the flesh.

Has come- this is in the perfect tense which means a past action with continuing results in the present. John is telling us at the time he penned these words that Jesus came in the flesh in the past and that He continues in the flesh in the present, well after His ascension to the Father. Christ took upon Himself flesh and this has become His permanent dwelling. This is a direct refutation of the Gnostic Cerinthus who taught that Christ only temporarily assumed a body.

So we can see from John here that anyone that does not agree the Jesus is both permanently God and man is the spirit of antichrist and this persons message is not from God. John is writing after the resurrection and is using perfect tense in Greek which denotes a past action with continuing results into the present, and continuing on through eternity. Christ came in the flesh, He rose from the dead in the flesh, Ascended into heaven in the flesh and is now 2000 years later still in the flesh. The same body that He was born and died with that still bare the marks of His crucifixion, He rose with from the grave. If one claims that Christ rose as a spirit being and not in His physical material body of flesh and bones, they are of the spirit of antichrist. One cannot deny the Deity of Jesus or His humanity. Those who deny any of these truths according to John do not have the Father, the Son or the Spirit.

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.



Erchomenon
the present participle in 2 John 7

Alford
- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)

Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.


of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

Vincent- Is come erchomenon‎. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood

hope this helps !!!
 
You lied again. As I said, lying seems to be your MO.

Your words reveal the modus operandi (MO) of your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21), so your words indicate your belief structure, and this post exposes the results of your belief structure.

The enlightening exchange between Jesus and the crowd of individuals with context follows. The true Lord Jesus declares that God causes a person to believe in King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for Lord Jesus eliminates the "work of man" when he replies to the crowd:
Speaker Holy Scripture Summary
the crowd: "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” (John 6:28) How do I do the work of man causing the work of God in me?
Lord Jesus: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) One believing in Me whom the Father has sent is the work of God alone inside of such a one

Lord Jesus Christ means exactly what he said when he said that that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God!

Your modus operandi is to adulterate the Word of God because you call Lord Jesus your liar with your 'With respect to John 6:29, that is Jesus' answer to those in the crowd asking, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" He didn't try to deceive them. He answered them truthfully and told them what they must do. He told them "you must believe in God"' (proof post #6,346) words there, Jim, which results in your traditions of men on the left side below while the righteous side expresses divine right:
The traditions of men The Holy Word of God
This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(Jim 6:29)
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
 
Your words reveal the modus operandi (MO) of your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21), so your words indicate your belief structure, and this post exposes the results of your belief structure.

The enlightening exchange between Jesus and the crowd of individuals with context follows. The true Lord Jesus declares that God causes a person to believe in King Jesus of the Kingdom of God for Lord Jesus eliminates the "work of man" when he replies to the crowd:
SpeakerHoly ScriptureSummary
the crowd:"What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” (John 6:28)How do I do the work of man causing the work of God in me?
Lord Jesus:"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)One believing in Me whom the Father has sent is the work of God alone inside of such a one

Lord Jesus Christ means exactly what he said when he said that that you believe in Him whom He has sent is the work of God!

Your modus operandi is to adulterate the Word of God because you call Lord Jesus your liar with your 'With respect to John 6:29, that is Jesus' answer to those in the crowd asking, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" He didn't try to deceive them. He answered them truthfully and told them what they must do. He told them "you must believe in God"' (proof post #6,346) words there, Jim, which results in your traditions of men on the left side below while the righteous side expresses divine right:
The traditions of menThe Holy Word of God
This is not the work of God but this is the work of man, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(Jim 6:29)
This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(Lord Jesus Christ, John 6:29)

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
And you lied again. And that pretty much seems to describe who and what you are. I have never made the statement that you are attributing to me. Now if you do not stop lying, I will report you.
 
Is that a no?

Why can't you just say no?

So you are yelling at people who have no choice to believe differently. correct?

Behold you dispassion for the Word of God because your heart (Matthew 15:16-19, Matthew 6:21) deleted the Word of God from the post to which you replied.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE TRUTH!!!
 
yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).
Please answer this.

At what age did you know what you believe and how did you come to believe it?

Before grade school and that is what mom and dad taught you? In grade school when you first started to go to either bible school or children's church (if yours, like mine, has that)?

As a teen and you were listening to the pastor preach on Sunday (Saturday?) services?

Or is it that at some point in your life you were reading the bible and saw something that made sense to you and you adopted that belief into
your walk with God or your heard someone talking?

Surely you are aware that John 14 and John 15 have nothing to do with you or me.

Are you hanging onto John 15:16 as your proof?

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

or

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

These are the disciples Jesus is speaking to,

Need proof?

Look at verse 27. Read it again.

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

YOU were not with Him from the beginning.... This chapter is not for you and neither is chapter 14 if you care to reread that too.

I pray that you come to your senses sooner then later .... for the peace we experience is indescribable.
 
Please answer this.

At what age did you know what you believe and how did you come to believe it?

Before grade school and that is what mom and dad taught you? In grade school when you first started to go to either bible school or children's church (if yours, like mine, has that)?

As a teen and you were listening to the pastor preach on Sunday (Saturday?) services?

Or is it that at some point in your life you were reading the bible and saw something that made sense to you and you adopted that belief into
your walk with God or your heard someone talking?

Surely you are aware that John 14 and John 15 have nothing to do with you or me.

Are you hanging onto John 15:16 as your proof?

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

or

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

These are the disciples Jesus is speaking to,

Need proof?

Look at verse 27. Read it again.

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

YOU were not with Him from the beginning.... This chapter is not for you and neither is chapter 14 if you care to reread that too.

I pray that you come to your senses sooner then later .... for the peace we experience is indescribable.

Very well, MTMattie, Lord Jesus has made it clear that it is important for me to answer your opening question.

At the time of composing this message to you, Lord Jesus restrained me from reading beyond your opening question in your post, and I plan to read your post in full after this post goes live.

I started believing in my Lord, Savior, and God Jesus Christ at 0 (zero) years old when God worked the new birth in me for the Christ says "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 18:3) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

I came to believe in Lord Jesus by the work of God in me for the Word of God declares “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

No Word of God states man was imparted free-will. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! ALL GLORY TO THE LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
 
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Very well, MTMattie, Lord Jesus has made it clear that it is important for me to answer your opening question.

At the time of composing this message to you, Lord Jesus restrained me from reading beyond your opening question in your post, and I plan to read your post in full after this post goes live.

I started believing in my Lord, Savior, and God Jesus Christ at 0 (zero) years old when God worked the new birth in me for the Christ says "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 18:3) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

I came to believe in Lord Jesus by the work of God in me for the Word of God declares “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29).

No Word of God states man was imparted free-will. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! ALL GLORY TO THE LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST!!!
Ah, thank you. I sure am glad that Lord Jesus made it clear to you to answer this to me and I shall use your testimony when it comes time for another healthy debate on infant baptisms.... which I personally agree with. Unless you do not want me to?

Now I had posted this to you earlier....and in part was directed by the Holy Spirit. Did you read it?

You had posted....

If you are asking whether a person free-will chooses Jesus Christ, then the the following addresses your inquiry.

You believe you buy your way into heaven with your fleshly free-will faith payment in your "apart from Christ, I chose to believe Christ so Christ must profit me with salvation", yet the Christ of us Christians declares "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) and “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19, includes salvation) and “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29) and “It is the Spirit who gives Life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are Spirit and are Life” (John 6:63), so you believe falsehood (2 Peter 2:1, 2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
My reply....
Such a smorgasbord of words and verses.

Such a blatherskite with no concept of what the meaning of free-will is.

Those lost sheep that Jesus was sent for were not under the control of God, nor were they predestined to be .

Not all of them followed after Jesus when he came to earth. Those who did not had their own free will to accept what was being taught
or to reject it.

But when he first was sent to earth... with his Jewish lineage and living among his Jewish family, and choosing his Jewish disciples, and flatly stating to that one woman who had heard him and believed in him for the healing of her daughter.... He said, in Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

That Canaanite woman was the first example of true faith having come from her own freewill... having heard Jesus... unless you caount before He came Rahab, and possibly Ruth. (Both of whom came to their beliefs on their own)

Jesus said he was sent only to. Which means not for her, you or me... at that time. He was trying to reach the lost of God's chosen.
Who by their own choice were following a different path.

I dont know how to make it so you will understand.

To me “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny therefore we have free will.

The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose.

That being said our free will does not mean that mankind can do anything he pleases. Our choices are limited to what is in keeping with our nature. If we want to fly, we need a plane or similar because, unlike birds, we were not made with the ability to just take off.

YOU SAY.... CORRECT ME IF i AM WRONG IN THIS... A man cannot choose to make himself righteous because his... SIN... nature prevents him from from making a choice for God. We ARE told in Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,. So, free will is limited by nature.
(Paraphrasing what I think you mean)

Now, understand this. This limitation in free will does not mitigate our accountability. The Bible is clear that we not only have the ability to choose, we also have the responsibility to choose wisely. Even in the Old Testament, God may have chosen the nation Israel, but individuals within that nation still bore an obligation to choose obedience to God.

Obligation to choose = free will

Romans 11 certainly shows that there was free will when it took God to ... well, read it for yourself.


Chapter 11

1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

3"Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life."

4But what is God 's reply to him? "I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (free will)

5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

8as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear,down to this very day."

9And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them;

10let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see, and bend their backs forever."

IOW They, whom God chose had to be blocked lest their free will would lead them to Him
I am truly sorry you cannot see the joint workings of free will and God's sovereignty.
God's sovereignty means that God is in control of everything and has a plan for all events, while man's responsibility refers to the moral choices individuals make and their accountability for those choices. These concepts coexist in Christian theology, suggesting that even though God orchestrates all things, humans are still responsible for their actions.

I could go on and on.

I could tell you of how I came to believe as a young child....

But you are quite set in your ways and thoughts and goals of proving that only you know the truth.

Be blessed.
Now I am directed to an add on.

There is a thread here about Did Jesus have Free will.

I have not read it, but I will answer I most certainly believe so.

I say that because Jesus, while praying to His father...

“Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”

He was not going to assert his own desires in the situation, but was allowing the Fathers to be done. = free will
 
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Please answer this.

At what age did you know what you believe and how did you come to believe it?

Before grade school and that is what mom and dad taught you? In grade school when you first started to go to either bible school or children's church (if yours, like mine, has that)?

As a teen and you were listening to the pastor preach on Sunday (Saturday?) services?

Or is it that at some point in your life you were reading the bible and saw something that made sense to you and you adopted that belief into
your walk with God or your heard someone talking?

Surely you are aware that John 14 and John 15 have nothing to do with you or me.

Are you hanging onto John 15:16 as your proof?

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

or

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

These are the disciples Jesus is speaking to,

Need proof?

Look at verse 27. Read it again.

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

YOU were not with Him from the beginning.... This chapter is not for you and neither is chapter 14 if you care to reread that too.

I pray that you come to your senses sooner then later .... for the peace we experience is indescribable.

I see what you're saying, MTMattie, specifically, you are saying that you are not a friend of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" thus you self-willingly exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me".

I have been with Lord Jesus from the beginning, that is, my birth by God, so "you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning" (John 15:27) is for all of us Christians in all time.

This post continues post #6,393 which is integral to this current post. In case you missed this significant fact, post #6,393 did not contain a single citation of John 15:16 nor John 15:19.

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY DELIVERER!!!
 
I see what you're saying, MTMattie, specifically, you are saying that you are not a friend of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" thus you self-willingly exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me".

I have been with Lord Jesus from the beginning, that is, my birth by God, so "you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning" (John 15:27) is for all of us Christians in all time.

This post continues post #6,393 which is integral to this current post. In case you missed this significant fact, post #6,393 did not contain a single citation of John 15:16 nor John 15:19.

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY DELIVERER!!!
You know nothing. You understand nothing.

I see someone who is incapable of making a decision for himself therefore is relying on the interpretations of the likes of Luther and Calvin. So sad.

You are in good company... many of those here believe what has erroneously been told them.

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE.

your words:
so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).

John 15:16, John 15:15 John 6:29 John 3:3-8 John 3:21, John 15:5, Matthew 11:25. John 13:14


John 15, 15, 6, 3, 15 ,Matt 11, John 13

You definitely are the king of the cherry pickers for your word salad.
 
You know nothing. You understand nothing.

I see someone who is incapable of making a decision for himself therefore is relying on the interpretations of the likes of Luther and Calvin. So sad.

You are in good company... many of those here believe what has erroneously been told them.

"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE.

your words:
so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).

John 15:16, John 15:15 John 6:29 John 3:3-8 John 3:21, John 15:5, Matthew 11:25. John 13:14


John 15, 15, 6, 3, 15 ,Matt 11, John 13

You definitely are the king of the cherry pickers for your word salad.

No, no, I get it, you vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me".

Your anti-truth writing of "John 15:16 WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE" is you intensifying your denial of friendship with Jesus regarding "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16).

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER AND SUSTENANCE OF LIFE!!!
 
No, no, I get it, you vehemently believe that you are not a friend of Jesus because your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me" (proof post #6,395) thus you self-willingly exclude yourself from "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16). I reject your "John 15 have nothing to do with you or me".

Your anti-truth writing of "John 15:16 WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE" is you intensifying your denial of friendship with Jesus regarding "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16).

The Word of God issues these wonderful blessings to all believers in all time:
  • "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15, the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
  • "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God exclusively chooses people unto salvation.
  • "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.
And I am forevermore thankful to Lord Jesus Christ!

The only way for free-willian philosophers to acheive free-will is for them to add to the Word of God, and it is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in man's salvation and affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE GIVER AND SUSTENANCE OF LIFE!!!
"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16) WAS NEVER MEANT FOR ALL PEOPLE.
 
but Christ as a Son over His own house,
whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts (Heb. 3:6-8 NKJ)


Stubbornly embracing Satan's lie of OSAS is hardening one's heart and resisting the Spirit.
Hebrews 3:14, we read - For we have become partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, where we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence firm to the end.

*Notice that the wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end. It is rather - "you have been, and now are, partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end.

Now what about those faltering Hebrews who end up departing from God after beginning with some level of confidence and profession of loyalty, but then later? Future perseverance is proof of genuine conversion.
 
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