Acknowledging the meaningful impact of the "Revolt in Judea"

[praise_yeshua]

If I were to just list the various devastating historical events that took place in Judea from 66-70 AD....... I believe any individual would be hard pressed to not recognize the significance relative to humanity and God's purpose.

I believe there is often a tendency in modern "Christian Eschatology"to downplay the impact of these events.

I would like to list and deal with the dramatic events of this "time" upon historical Christianity. I believe that if you recognize the meaningfulness of this "time", Your theology just might change significantly.

To "set the table". I would like openly state that I believe apostasy isn't something new. There have been multiple events throughout the history of humanity. Apostasies are detailed in the Scriptures. I will start from the beginning.

1. The flood. (which destroyed all but "8 souls".
2. The tower of Babel (approximately 100 years after the flood, God had to act quickly to prevent apostasy once again. Just 100 years later....)
3. The apostasy that took place that made slaves of children of Abraham wherein the memory of Josephus was abandoned.
4. The damnation of almost an entire generation of "Israelites" in the wilderness.
5. The rejection of God and the introduction of a "Gentile tradition" of "Kings" in Israel
6. The mass killing of Israelites because of the sins of the "monarchy" within Israel.
7. The destruction of the various temples throughout history that brought humanity to brink of damnation before the Incarnation of God in flesh. Jesus Christ.
8. Less than 40 years after the Ascension the early church abandoned the teachings of the apostles that seamingly culminated the "Revolts in Judea".

I'm start from #8 and deal with the apostasy that has existed since these events. Again. Apostasy isn't something new. There are multiple events relative to an abandonment of the "Truth of God" throughout human history. Not just one. Several. The Truth of God has suffered for it.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Notice how Paul charges those that he spoke immediately spoke with the "fight against" the wolves that were already among them. This battle was not for us. It was for them. I'm not saying we don't have a battle. I'm just rightfully acknowledging that apostasy had already "set in" during the life of the apostles.

However, we know it has long worked with humanity. Over and over again.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

So how should we treat the events relative to the Revolt in Judea after the deaths of the apostles? Do they have any significance at all?

 

[Begotten]

To me the significance would be the return of Jesus happening soon.

The greatest sign, however, is given in Matthew 24:37-39, where Jesus said:“ But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Dr. M. R. De Haan gave the following comments on those verses: Jesus says, if you want to know the signs of My coming, study the days of Noah before the flood. When the conditions which existed before the flood are repeated, then know that it is near. This leaves anyone who has a Bible without excuse. Everything we know about the days before the flood is recorded in three chapters of the Bible (Genesis 4, 5, and 6). These three chapters can be read in thirty minutes...Since all we know about the days to which Jesus refers as the days of Noah is found in the Bible, no one can plead ignorance. To understand Jesus' words concerning the sign of His return we need only to study the three chapters dealing with the subject Genesis 4, 5, and 6.

 

[praise_yeshua]

To me the significance would be the return of Jesus happening soon.

The greatest sign, however, is given in Matthew 24:37-39, where Jesus said:“ But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Dr. M. R. De Haan gave the following comments on those verses: Jesus says, if you want to know the signs of My coming, study the days of Noah before the flood. When the conditions which existed before the flood are repeated, then know that it is near. This leaves anyone who has a Bible without excuse. Everything we know about the days before the flood is recorded in three chapters of the Bible (Genesis 4, 5, and 6). These three chapters can be read in thirty minutes...Since all we know about the days to which Jesus refers as the days of Noah is found in the Bible, no one can plead ignorance. To understand Jesus' words concerning the sign of His return we need only to study the three chapters dealing with the subject Genesis 4, 5, and 6.

Thank you!

I must however witness what I believe to be true concerning "the days of Noah".

There have been many generations of humanity that been just like the "days of Noah". In fact, the advent of Jesus Christ matches that exact description. Jesus came to His own and even His own received Him not wherein Messiah was cutoff in death for humanity.

I can't say that I know for certain this current age will see the "Return of Jesus Christ". I do believe "knowledge has increased" but I don't know if this is a reference to our time or some yet significant advancement still hundreds of years into the future.

However, I do know. Like has happened many times in our past, apostasy has long been all around us.

I believe any student of historical Christianity can recognize the significance of the "Revolt of Judea". Soon after these events there was a very serious lack of information surviving these events. Almost the entire world suffered a "dark period" where there is very little information to be found from the destruction from the revolt till around 300 AD.

This is significant to me.

 

[Rockson]

If I were to just list the various devastating historical events that took place in Judea from 66-70 AD....... I believe any individual would be hard pressed to not recognize the significance relative to humanity and God's purpose.

Well I kind of do in a sense. Now I appreciate when Jesus was speaking about Jerusalem in Lk 21 and other places.... it was talking about what would happen in 70 AD or there about. But why is it so significant to the world. The gospel was being preached throughout the known world with I'm sure more places yet to reach.....but not sure why you say what you say.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

And you say later in your post about a revolt of Judea. Not sure what you're implying? Are you believing Christianity was a super strong thing before 70 AD and they backslid (what you call a revolt) so therefore came the destruction of Jerusalem?

So how should we treat the events relative to the Revolt in Judea after the deaths of the apostles? Do they have any significance at all?

And by revolt you mean Christians turning against God? First the verses you had quoted in Acts I think it was more than likely he was writing to Gentile cities and I don't think it portrays that all Christians were going to massively backslide in his time or what you call a revolt in Judea. ;How large the Christian community was in the region of Judea to until 70 AD I'm not sure we know. Do you have numbers to know what they were and what they became?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well I kind of do in a sense. Now I appreciate when Jesus was speaking about Jerusalem in Lk 21 and other places.... it was talking about what would happen in 70 AD or there about. But why is it so significant to the world. The gospel was being preached throughout the known world with I'm sure more places yet to reach.....but not sure why you say what you say.

The comments of Paul relative to the abandonment of the truth create a scenario wherein the apostasy that took place in the early church impacted the message of Jesus Christ to a very significant degree.

For example. Notice the duty of Paul in his ministry.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The Preeminence of Christ was soon abandoned. If Christ can not be "first" in all theology, then it produces a false gospel that doesn't save.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

John even battled men among the churches that took the place of Christ.

3Jn 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
3Jn 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Paul had issues with finding anyone that would naturally care for believers.

Php 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
Php 2:20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

To make things worse, Paul foretold the abandonment of the faith that took place around the time of the Revolt in Judea. A "consummation" of many aspects of apostasy resulting in the desolation of Church at Jerusalem.

This is significant. No more than 40 years of the preaching of Christ and the leadership at Jerusalem is gone. Not just in the death of the apostles but a disbanding of whatever was left of origins of the spread of the Gospel. The "oracles of God" committed now to Gentiles. The "Church of God" split. Fractured to the point of not having significant influence in society for well over 150 years.

What survived was "incorporated" historically in "canons of the faith" from lesser men of faith than the apostles. We don't even have any significant words from the hands of Timothy or Titus. Just men left "claiming" allegiance to such men of faith for their own "bellies/benefits".

If anyone would let these "facts" sink in to their spirit, I believe you'll realize just how tainted the message of God in Jesus Christ became in denominationalism and "factions" that don't really care for one another. The hate that exists among Christians since the early church existed is nauseating. Putrig. Disgusting.

And you say later in your post about a revolt of Judea. Not sure what you're implying? Are you believing Christianity was a super strong thing before 70 AD and they backslid (what you call a revolt) so therefore came the destruction of Jerusalem?

Not exactly. I have given more information above. I am saying that the destruction of Jerusalem impacted the entire world in the fact the Church at Jerusalem had slowly departed from the faith of Jesus Christ and was destroyed along with prophecy of Jesus Christ....."Your house is left to you desolate".

Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

However, I repeat, apostasy had already overcome Christianity in the first century and Christ had become nothing more than a "means to an end". A means for men to "fill their own bellies".

And by revolt you mean Christians turning against God? First the verses you had quoted in Acts I think it was more than likely he was writing to Gentile cities and I don't think it portrays that all Christians were going to massively backslide in his time or what you call a revolt in Judea, ;How large the Christian community was in the region of Judea to until 70 AD I'm not sure we know. Do you have numbers to know what they were and what they became?

I mentioned several facts in my comments. Facts that cannot be disputed.

1. The largest organization of Christianity was found in the church at Jerusalem. That assembly dispersed and many murdered.
2. Apostasy had already "set in" many years before the events that saw the "Home of Christianity" destroyed.
3. We have little to no information for over 150 years afterwards. There was no "organization" to Christianity following the events surrounding the "Revolt in Judea".
4. No words surviving from Timothy or Titus.
5. Fractured assemblies "limping" along until lesser men began to "define" Christianity as they saw "fit" in early to late 4th century.
6. No union among canons. The East/West/South/North all making their own decisions relative to what "Thus says the Lord".

I could go on and on but this should be sufficient. I very seldom talk about this topic because it takes a mature mind in Christ to see things for what they really are. Apostasy isn't something new. It has always taken place throughout humanity.

Yet, we (and I do mean we) pretend there has been this "untainted" message since the time of the apostles and the Advent of Jesus Christ.

That is really nothing more than a fantasy. An embellishment of the sin of humanity that has driven us away from God. It is sad to say but some of the worst people I have ever meet in life are found in "Christianity". Evil men all looking to excel in oppressing others.

It is a very sad state of "affairs" today but it just didn't start 100 years ago or even 400 years ago. It has always been all around at most any time throughout history.

 

[Rockson]

If anyone would let these "facts" sink in to their spirit, I believe you'll realize just how tainted the message of God in Jesus Christ became in denominationalism and "factions" that don't really care for one another.

Sure. But for the reason that one adhere and agrees with the message of a particular denomination we can't make that to mean they really don't care for others who have different ways of seeing somethings. All I'm saying is you can't say it's a given.

The hate that exists among Christians since the early church existed is nauseating. Putrig. Disgusting.

I don't think it was any different at any time in history, even in the early church. You're always going to have some or many waking in the flesh, or being carnal. They had debatable issues then as we do today as in whether one should observe certain days or not....plus other issues. You've always had some in the mix which can disagree without being disagreement and they'd keep the unity of the Spirit and some which would not.

....the Church at Jerusalem had slowly departed from the faith of Jesus Christ and was destroyed along with prophecy of Jesus Christ....."Your house is left to you desolate".

Keep in mind though that Jesus gave your quote above before he ascended. He had already defined the judgement was leveled not waiting for Christians to get strong years later and then weak. The Christians in Judea did their best to function in their regions and win the lost but God knew at least the majority of the nation would not accept their Messiah for who he was.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sure. But for the reason that one adhere and agrees with the message of a particular denomination we can't make that to mean they really don't care for others who have different ways of seeing somethings. All I'm saying is you can't say it's a given.

Can you provide some examples of exceptions?

Every "service" the body of Christ that survive are divided. They hire their own leaders that endless repeat to them what they want to hear. It happened during the time of the apostles. It is much worse today. Paul literally stated that "all of Asia" had turned against him. The Unity of the Body began to implode before the apostles ever died. There is no Unity today. Everyone has went to their "own corners" and endless preach against one another. This is apostasy.

There are literally hundreds of "assemblies" within driving distance of my residence. All claiming to be right and all lead by individuals that have nothing more than the distinction of being hired to preach what that assembly wants to hear. I have had "pastors" tell me that it is impossible for them to teach what they really believe because they wouldn't have a job left.

Living a mature life in Christ without compromise is a rare thing to find today. Jesus said....

Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

I don't think it was any different at any time in history, even in the early church. You're always going to have some or many waking in the flesh, or being carnal. They had debatable issues then as we do today as in whether one should observe certain days or not....plus other issues. You've always had some in the mix which can disagree without being disagreement and they'd keep the unity of the Spirit and some which would not.

There was power to some degree among the apostles to control this in the early church. That power is gone. Which makes it much worse. I'm not saying there isn't a difference. The difference is only found in a few.

Yet, everyone seems to claim to be the "few". They're not. It is just another means of control. A desire to rule over others is what drives today's assemblies. I know we are saying similar things. I believe it is much worse than the average Christian will willingly acknowledge. It has long been this way.

We are the children of those who rejected God over and over throughout history. It is important to admit we are. We must face our guilt.

Keep in mind though that Jesus gave your quote above before he ascended. He had already defined the judgement was leveled not waiting for Christians to get strong years later and then weak. The Christians in Judea did their best to function in their regions and win the lost but God knew at least the majority of the nation would not accept their Messiah for who he was.

Did the Christian Church at Jerusalem service the judgment of Israel?

 

[Rockson]

Can you provide some examples of exceptions?

Sure. Christians believe different things bur can still care for one another. Charismatic Christians compared with the Non Charismatic. Some may believe different things but they can still care and love one another.

Every "service" the body of Christ that survive are divided.

And yet there's a great many in the mix of all that that walk in love. You're always going to have division to a point and degree all throughout time.

They hire their own leaders that endless repeat to them what they want to hear.

Well whatever group you gravitate towards if you're going to be a leader/Pastor, it goes without saying if you go another direction one's denomination will have something to say about it. Probably to say something different, then what you're involved with it'd probably work best in a home church setting where one makes their own income where everything is not dependent on having others agree with.

It happened during the time of the apostles. It is much worse today. Paul literally stated that "all of Asia" had turned against him.

Can you give me the verse for that?

There is no Unity today. Everyone has went to their "own corners" and endless preach against one another.

Yeah sure. But we can't say there's no unity today. There's always a remnant in unity. So let's no say there's NO UNITY. That would be giving Satan too many points for having achieved something.

I have had "pastors" tell me that it is impossible for them to teach what they really believe because they wouldn't have a job left.

Perhaps correct. But I have seen some Pastors lead their gathering out of denominations or certain ones and they went with him. Not saying that is good or bad but I have seen it.

There was power to some degree among the apostles to control this in the early church. That power is gone.

I respectfully disagree. It's never been gone.

.Did the Christian Church at Jerusalem service the judgment of Israel?

Not sure what you mean by this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Sure. Christians believe different things bur can still care for one another. Charismatic Christians compared with the Non Charismatic. Some may believe different things but they can still care and love one another.

It is largely a superficial love lacking depth and little meaningfulness. It is loving for the "sake of the Gospel's demands to love" instead of loving from a place of sincere empathy. Which is the centerpiece of God's love.

I'm not saying that there isn't exceptions. There are but it is rare and uneventful. It doesn't change men. It simple soothes the conscience of those "past feeling".

When a person becomes "numb", they lose their natural Christian affections.

And yet there's a great many in the mix of all that that walk in love. You're always going to have division to a point and degree all throughout time.

I would like to draw your attention to the facts that perfect love requires "purity" and "seeks not its own". Love is often imperfect exercised and self serving in humanity and among Christians. Which is why denominationalism tis "status quo" throughout the majority of history.

Well whatever group you gravitate towards if you're going to be a leader/Pastor, it goes without saying if you go another direction one's denomination will have something to say about it. Probably to say something different, then what you're involved with it'd probably work best in a home church setting where one makes their own income where everything is not dependent on having others agree with.

It seems to me that you have accepted the "status quo" of "go start your own church" when there isn't but One Church. Undivided. United in the common fellowship with Christ as the Head of all things.

I did this when I was a young preacher/pastor. It was one of the worst things I've ever done. I believed exactly as you believe now. "Fit in" somewhere and ignore the over all arching apostasy around me. I decided to refuse to do it anymore.

Can you give me the verse for that?

2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

Yeah sure. But we can't say there's no unity today. There's always a remnant in unity. So let's no say there's NO UNITY. That would be giving Satan too many points for having achieved something.

Satan is only part of it. We are our own problem. Most men oppose themselves. Satan doesn't have to do much of anything. It isn't an achievement for Satan. It is "easy work"....

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Perhaps correct. But I have seen some Pastors lead their gathering out of denominations or certain ones and they went with him. Not saying that is good or bad but I have seen it.

Not much more than the "Blind leading the blind".

I respectfully disagree. It's never been gone.

2Ti 4:15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
2Ti 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
2Ti 4:17 Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion.
2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul resisted everything that exalted itself above the knowledge of God. Everything. That is what I try to do myself. Which is why I'm even discussing this. You can probably understand that messages such as this does not "go over well" with assemblies today. They love to pretend that God is with them when we are far from pleasing to Him.

Many people fuss about Catholicism and her "penance" when the average Christian is often no better.

Not sure what you mean by this?

I meant to say "survive" the destruction of Jerusalem?

The Church of Jerusalem suffered destruction right along with Jerusalem.

 

[Rockson]

It is largely a superficial love lacking depth and little meaningfulness. It is loving for the "sake of the Gospel's demands to love" instead of loving from a place of sincere empathy. Which is the centerpiece of God's love.

Hmmm....with a due respect I wouldn't say I agree with that. For over thirty years I worked in the auto sector. Numbers of those years we had a daily fellowship at lunchtime lasting 40 minutes and prayer together. We had charismatics, non Charismatics, even a few Calvinists.

Our love did have great depth towards each other we wept with those who wept among us and sought sincerely to strengthen each other. I'd even go to their homes and fellowship and they with me. Strange thing is I felt closer to them then I did with people in my own church....guess because we saw each other and were with each other 6 days a week. (on overtime weeks it was 6)

I'm not saying that there isn't exceptions. There are but it is rare and uneventful.

It doesn't have to be rare though. I think it's just the surroundings we find ourselves in. We live in bubbles. I've heard this said to if we were all in the military in a fox hole all denominational tags get set aside. You see your brother and you love him in Christ.

Which is why denominationalism tis "status quo" throughout the majority of history.

I still believe you can have what we call denominations. I don't think it's a given that division of Spirit has to be the case by having them.

It seems to me that you have accepted the "status quo" of "go start your own church" when there isn't but One Church.

I know there's one church . But people are on different wave lengths and it's unfortunate that we are but it's difficult to advance the kingdom always together if our vision is somewhat different. That doesn't mean however that we can't pray for one another and be glad when another part of the body even within our town is getting people saved.....They're advancing the Kingdom. Their victory is really our victory for we're still in the same team and body.

I did this when I was a young preacher/pastor. It was one of the worst things I've ever done. I believed exactly as you believe now. "Fit in" somewhere

So what exactly did you do?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hmmm....with a due respect I wouldn't say I agree with that. For over thirty years I worked in the auto sector. Numbers of those years we had a daily fellowship at lunchtime lasting 40 minutes and prayer together. We had charismatics, non Charismatics, even a few Calvinists.

I said there were exceptions but they are few. This place is an exception but all exceptions are relative to degree. Some to a greater degree than others.

In "due respect"...

I don't want to offend you. I'm trying to avoid it. Prayer is best served in private. Truth is essential to fellowship. I will fellowship with just about anyone. I do mean that sincerely. However, there are doctrinal positions that prevent a mature and meaningful fellowship among believers. Some is right and someone is wrong. Being wrong doesn't bother me. God is patient with us and over mistakes. However, we tend to "devour" one another. We are all wrong to some degree but there is a large degree/variance of such.

The problem arises when we get to place were we all believe we are right and none of us agree ..... Two can not walk together without some agreement and general understanding that maturity "casts aside the weights that so easily beset us".

That is why it is so very bad at this time. "All men do what they think is right in their own eyes". It is why I'm required to speak the Truth regardless of relationships to men. It is why I challenge everyone regardless of my own personal relationship. It is why I find it hard to fellowship at any length with others. I want to so very much but I don't have it in me to not contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

I'm not saying this because I feel entitled or base my beliefs upon success of relationships or impact to society. I endless challenge my own perspective.

Our love did have great depth towards each other we wept with those who wept among us and sought sincerely to strengthen each other. I'd even go to their homes and fellowship and they with me. Strange thing is I felt closer to them then I did with people in my own church....guess because we saw each other and were with each other 6 days a week. (on overtime weeks it was 6)

I'm glad you had that experience. The early church had some of this but it was fleeting. Death ended it for them. I've found that I can have this with Christ alone. There are times we care for others more than we do Christ. (Not saying you do. Saul loved David because David would play his music to soothe his troubled soul because he cared more for another man's comfort than the comfort of Christ/God.

There are people that go to "church" every service and mourn. They sincerely care about God but it all centered around their need of fellowship with another person.

You know what this causes? Compromise.

It doesn't have to be rare though. I think it's just the surroundings we find ourselves in. We live in bubbles. I've heard this said to if we were all in the military in a fox hole all denominational tags get set aside. You see your brother and you love him in Christ.

A person is only as good as what they believe. (Not talking about love but discipleship.) I don't make anyone chargeable to me. So don't judge yourself by me. Intimacy with God requires lonely times where you find Christ as your treasure. Again. Not saying there are not exceptions but they are rare and largely among the few. Not the many.

I still believe you can have what we call denominations. I don't think it's a given that division of Spirit has to be the case by having them.

I can tell. Most people do. Which is what most people believe. They believe divisions based upon doctrine are not meaningful. I agree relative to immaturity. However, a mature faith fellowships in the Truth. This why Paul asked....

Is Christ divided?

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I know there's one church . But people are on different wave lengths and it's unfortunate that we are but it's difficult to advance the kingdom always together if our vision is somewhat different. That doesn't mean however that we can't pray for one another and be glad when another part of the body even within our town is getting people saved.....They're advancing the Kingdom. Their victory is really our victory for we're still in the same team and body.

I agree. Which is why we must have patience but there is only so far we can go as a group without unity of beliefs. Individually is a different story.

So what exactly did you do?

I tried starting my own fellowship. It really wasn't about Christ because Christ is nigh to us all individually. Assembly should not control our lives. If all I ever got was what I got from assembling together then I wouldn't get much. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy it but it isn't where I find substance. I find that alone in Christ.

 

[Rockson]

. We are all wrong to some degree but there is a large degree/variance of such.

I like to try to take the position on some issues don't be more upset at someone who is wrong more than Jesus himself is. Don't get me wrong truth is truth and error is error but as you say ;there are varying degrees of how serious an error might be. We need to keep things in perspective

It is why I'm required to speak the Truth regardless of relationships to men.

And I'm sure you agree we're to seek to do so in love.

It is why I challenge everyone regardless of my own personal relationship.

I do like the word "challenge" you use. At times the spiritually immature want to label everything a fight if one expresses anything they're not in agreement on. Everyone should be up to the challenge or at least be willing to have their beliefs tested. I call it kicking the tires of what's being said. Can the beliefs take the pressure without falling off?

I've at times asked people I can trust to kick the tires of something I am thinking. I delight to have pressure put on things I'm thinking to see if it holds up. The spirit by which we do this though should be as being wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Oh many are so wise, smart, knowledgeable and intelligent. But there's a second part that goes along with this.....the harmless as doves. I'm rambling here but not being such can put us in a position of being right....and yet we're wrong.

It is why I find it hard to fellowship at any length with others.

Much could be said about this. I'll tell you I choose not to hang around even genuine Christians too much who are prone to walk in strife or a varieties of other things similar. It's not that I'm being unloving but such ones can tend to drive the life right out of you. Spiritual edification should be what we want to impart and we need that from others.

There are times we care for others more than we do Christ.

I know what you mean and yes possible.

A person is only as good as what they believe.

I have a saying too....a Christian is only as good as their prayer life and fellowship with the Lord is on whatever day. Christians tend to look at well known ministries.....Oh they're a great man of God! They wrote this book or that! They pastor a large church! But did they pray and fellowship with the Lord today, and i mean TODAY! Fellowship of past times isn't strength for now. Good discussion.